RAPTURE

Hello, my dearly beloved brother DavidTree.


Post #130.


No problem.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 does not have any Saints raptured BEFORE the Resurrection.

Revelation chapter 19 does not have any raptured Saints since the Resurrection does not take place until the Lord's Return.

The First Resurrection BEFORE the rapture occurs in Revelation chapter 20.

The Rapture is the Resurrection. It is the First Resurrection.


The First Resurrection takes place 7 years before the Lord's return. The Lord does not return to Earth until the end of Rev 19. The robes and wedding happen before we return to Earth.


Your post-trib thingy has you doing backflips.

The Bible is for everyone. Not all will be ready.

The Revelation Prophecies are to warn everyone. The whole Bible is for everyone. This is like asking why the Bible mentions hell if the Church is not going there.

God has not appointed us to wrath. Not in hell and not in the 7-year Tribulation where His wrath is poured out on the enemy.

There isn't a verse that says we will not have TRIBULATION.

John 16:33 I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation (thlipsin | θλῖψιν | acc sg fem), but take courage, I have conquered the world.”

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is clearly a rapture event and is clearly not about us returning back to Earth with Him at His Second Coming.
Jude 1:14
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”
It is obvious that each person only needs to be resurrected once.

No. The Rapture is not the Second Coming. We go up. We are raptured up.


No. We return to Earth once, at the Second Coming.

How did you think pre-trib worked?

24 Signs of the end of the Age

No special order. This is an off the top of my head list.

1. 2017 Revelation 12 sign in the heavens at the time of the Feast of Trumpets, the woman crowned with 12 stars travailing to give birth to the Manchild. The signs are to wake people up and alert them that the end of the age is at hand. This sign will not return for such a long period of time that you know it has to be pointing to right now.

2. The pandemic in 2020. According to Joel there will be a worldwide pandemic that shuts down the world's economy because God is proclaiming a sabbath for people to fast and pray. He says that this pandemic is a sign that the day of the Lord is at hand.

3. We saw two cows in 2015, a black one with a beautiful 7 and a red one with the simplest 7, both were born with this number on their forehead. Both were born in the US. This took place right before the feast of trumpets. It was seen as being prophetic that the 7 years starting at that time would be years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine. Based on that prophecy the famine began in September of 2022 and we are seeing that. Since one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse is famine we expect the apocalypse to begin shortly.

4. 5 Red heifers arrived in Israel on September 15th, they went through ten days of quarantine and so officially arrived on the 25th of September 2022 which was the feast of trumpets. Many see this as the beginning of the 70th week in Daniel, the last seven years of this age. The Hebrew term for week is "shemitah" and it is a specific reference to a seven year period where the seventh year is a sabbath year. This feast of trumpets begins a new shemitah, therefore if this is not the 70th shemitah you have to wait another 7 years. That would destroy all 24 of the signs I am providing here. Therefore many believe that this will be the 70th Shemitah.

5. There is a prophecy from a Jewish rabbi that when the sea of Galilee is full the Messiah will return. This is the first time since that prophecy that the sea of Galilee is full and already many rabbis are proclaiming that they are talking to the "messiah". This could be the false prophet who many interpret to come out of Israel, or it could be the two witnesses that appear during the tribulation. Either way, another big sigh.

6. The US moved the embassy to Jerusalem in 2017. This confirmed that 1967 and 1917 were also jubilee years. It also refers to a prophesy from a Jewish rabbi hundreds of years earlier which said that Ottoman empire would give up Israel in the jubilee in 1917, that the next jubilee Jerusalem would return to Israel and that the next jubilee after that would be the end of the age.

7. The Abraham accords where several countries made peace with Israel saying they could rebuild their temple is a major sign referred to in Daniel.

8. The 120th jubilee of human history was 2017. There is a prophecy that it takes 6,000 years (6 days) to make men and that the seventh day is the day of rest with the millennial reign.

9. The war in Ukraine is fulfilling the prophecy in Ezekiel 38. A rabbi prophesied years ago that when the war in Ukraine starts the Messiah would appear (false prophet?)

10. Earthquakes have increased 1,000% since the 1950s.

11. Stolen election and the stop the steal rallies along with the weaponization of the DOJ and FBI indicates we have an internal coup just as in the days of Esther. Steve Bannon is clearly a modern day Mordecai.

12. The US has become Sodom and Gomorrah, they rebel against God's word and they are proud of that.

13. The apostasy of the church "has to come first". Many churches have left the word of God, they ignore verses in the Bible, they explain away other verses. It is no longer "Jesus is Lord" in the church but rather "their church, their rules".

14. BLM protests were the sign of Jonah given to this evil and adulterous age. Jonah protested in the streets of Nineveh for 40 days over their abuses as a slave holding city. Jonah was spit out on the beach after traveling across the ocean in the belly of a beast just as the slaves brought from Africa were.

15. 911 was a harbinger of God's judgment on this nation. We were given 19 years to repent. Instead we claimed we would build back better, ignoring God's warning and 19 years later the pandemic hit.

16. Knowledge has increased exponentially with smart phones, AI and the internet.

17. People are flying all over the earth (Daniel said they would run to and fro).

18. The Pope has just begun something called Chrislam where all the monotheistic religions unite, excluding evangelical Christians and ultimately leading to them persecuting the church.

19. They are using RFID chips in people's hands to buy and sell along with requiring social credit scores and vaccine passports. It is very clear that a digital currency as the mark of the beast will be implemented shortly.

20. Many are saying they are the anointed of God (ie the Christ) and are deceiving many on Youtube and the internet.

21. The entire world is watching what is happening and is effected by what happens. Never before in human history has that been true to this extent. TV's did not become common until after WWII. Radio just came out at the time of WWI.

22. The gospel is preached worldwide on the internet.

23. Lawlessness is increasing. We see things happening everyday that are stunning concerning how lawless they are.

24. The church will be hated. It is so obvious where a pastor who sings hymns outside an abortion clinic is arrested by a swat team at his house while people who fire bomb churches are ignored.

So did you get this from Hal Lindsay's book. "The Late, Great Planet Earth" or "The Left Behind" series? It would have been more interesting had you posted the verses that claim each these things. Revelation is Apocalyptic Literature, by the way! It is fulfilled symbolically!

So did you get this from Hal Lindsay's book. "The Late, Great Planet Earth" or "The Left Behind" series?

Please post the verse that says, we "go up!"

1 Thessalonians 4:17
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

First resurrection is Jesus, not the rapture. When someone becomes saved that person has been raised from the dead in their soul existence.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Yes and many argue (correctly) that the rapture of the firstfruits must take place first and that the firstfruits are Jewish (also true). However, they fail to realize this rapture took place at the time of Jesus Resurrection.

Agree. Many Christians are having tribulation in the world right now, just like your verse says...

This is speaking to the present time. We will be saved from the future time of God's Wrath and Judgement upon the Earth.

I think Jesus explained now & then quite well in Matt 24

6 And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.

We don't get the birth without the birthpains. He was clearly talking about a latter time, after the gospel has gone out to all nations.
After a falling away, betraying each other, false prophets & lawlessness.

9 “Then they will hand you over to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will rise up and mislead many people. 12 And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold.

13 But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.


He goes on speaking of specific signs and a specific time.

15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand—

21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again

22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.


25 Behold, I have told you in advance. !!!!

Nothing is secret...... the visible second coming is at hand. Everyone sees him. This isn't something only "the church"
or "the bride" witnesses.

27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

Then the rapture

31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.