Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Imo, it is not enough to believe/be faithful for a single hour. You must be faithful unto death to obtain the Crown of Life, as the Lord Jesus clearly says in Rev 2:10. All that is necessary for salvation is to believe and love Jesus Christ and live and die doing so. But claiming salvation once, then lapsing from Christ, as some have clearly done, both in Biblical times, and also today, is not enough for salvation. Also, the example of the Unforgiving Servant shows asking forgiveness once is not enough.

The Passages:

Rev 2:10: "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Mat 18:The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

The typical OSAS response to such passages is (1) He was never forgiven/justified in the first place.
(2) But the Lord already pre-emptively answered that, by saying/showing he definitely was forgiven.
(3) He did not lose his soul for any past sin, but only for the sin of unforgiveness after having received forgiveness.

If you commit adultery, apostasy, murder etc, then say sorry to the Lord and repent, you are forgiven all those sins.

But let's say after doing this, and have received such Grace and Mercy from God, you refuse to forgive someone else.

Even a someone who, perhaps, committed less sins. According to what the Lord teaches here, that's a damnable sin.

Scary thought. But Truth. The best remedy for that is to Pray the Lord's Prayer Daily and MEAN IT: "Forgive us our sins, AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US". We cannot play with God on any matter, including when it comes to unforgiveness. God considers us very unfair, unjust and unreasonable if we ask Him for forgiveness for Great Sins committed against Him then refuse to forgive very minor offenses against us, as this poor lost wicked servant did here.

God Bless.

Another Biblical exhortation to persevere after hearing and doing the Word, in St. James, Chap 1:

"21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.

God Bless.

You are so right ----Jesus says this about Judas who is the one who would betray him


Matthew 26:24 AMP B

24 The Son of Man is to go [to the cross], just as it is written [in Scripture] of Him; but woe (judgment is coming) to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.


God never causes a anyone to sin or to go to Hell ----WE sent ourselves there ------by keeping our hearts hardened toward God and ----His Word ---who is Jesus -----


I agree with your statement here
Judas's heart was already hardened toward God and His Word from the start -----God allowed Judas's heart to remain hardened so His Plan to get His Son on the Cross could be executed ----Pharaoh already had a hardened Heart toward God and His message from Moses and God allowed Pharaoh's already hardened heart to remain hardened so God's plan could be carried out the way God wanted ----

God would have already known that Judas was a thief and therefore was offered the position of looking after the money purse ----which enticed him to join the group -----and he was stealing money from the purse before he turned Jesus in for the pieces of silver he was offered ------another sign that he was not a true follower of Jesus ------

God used certain people to help execute His plan of Salvation ------Pharaoh and Judas played a very important part in bringing Jesus to the Cross -----this clearly shows how God's sovereignty and the will of man works together -----when it comes to God bringing His plan to conclusion -----and His plan is still playing out ---

That, right there. ^^^^^

You’re free to believe as you wish, of course, but I believe he was a believer because that’s what I see in the Bible. I highly doubt Jesus would give a non-believer power and authority to use the spiritual gift of healing. Nor would He tell a non-believer he has eternal life. There’s so much more too.

So if we stack up the evidence I provided and the evidence you provided and compare them then your view is lacking really any Biblical support.

I see these two possibilities:

1. Judas believed for a time then stopped and lost his salvation.
2. Judas continued believing to the end despite his many sins.

Number 1 is more likely in my opinion.

Seems to me Judas was chosen because he was not ever a believer. Kinda wondering at what time in history do you
Runningman
believe he was a believer. beings he was called at the beginning of His ministry?


“And I said unto them, If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah” (Zechariah 11:12-13).

Beckie,

Judas was a believer the whole time or at some point he wasn’t a believer anymore. Really only God know the answer to that question, but the Bible provides enough evidence that he was a genuine believer at some point.

If one is a OSAS adherent, I suspect they will have to accept Judas went to heaven. The other option one has is that Judas is an example of a believer who lost salvation. Or one is free to choose willful blindness to this because it’s irreconcilable with OSAS and, therefore, lean on their own understanding.

Also it just occurred to me that all of the disciples weren’t believers when they were first chosen.

What happens if a believer, freed from the law through Christ, gets circumcised?

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace

Amen.

This is a perfect example of a scripture that proves a person who was in Christ can fall away and be severed from Christ. But, like with all such scriptures, it goes in one ear and out the other of those who preach eternal security.

No. Not really.

"1) Titus was a pure Greek (Galatians 2:3). Timothy was born of a Greek father and a Jewish mother. According to 2 Timothy 3:15, from childhood Timothy had been taught the Old Testament scriptures. In other words, his Jewish mother brought him up as a Jew. But his Greek father had not allowed the circumcision. For Titus the pressure was to become Jewish. Timothy was already very Jewish by race and by training. For him to be circumcised would not have had the implication of moving from Gentile status to Jew status.

2) The people Paul resisted in Galatians 2:3-5 were false brothers. The Jews to whom he catered in Acts 16:3 were not even Christians. The pressure in Galatians 2:3-5 was from professing believers upon another believer to perform a work of law in order to be accepted. But Acts 16:2 says Timothy was “well spoken of by all the brethren at Lystra and Iconium.” No Christians were pushing for Timothy’s circumcision. Rather it was “because of the Jews that were in those places” (16:3) that Paul had Timothy circumcised. “Jews” is used over 85 times in Acts and almost without exception refers to unbelievers. And here they appear to be distinct from “brethren.” So it appears that Timothy’s circumcision was not motivated by “Christian” pressure from within but by a missionary strategy from without.

3) Titus was a “test case” in Jerusalem (Galatians 2:1), but Timothy was to be a constant travel companion (Acts 16:3). Therefore, in Titus’ case a clear theological issue was at stake. But in Timothy’s case, what was at stake was how unbelieving Jews might best be won to Christ. So just as Christian freedom caused Paul to resist Titus’ circumcision, this same freedom allowed him to remove the stumbling block of Timothy’s lack of circumcision. Paul applied his principle from 1 Corinthians 9:20, “To the Jews I became a Jew in order to win the Jews.”

On the basis of these three differences, then, I would say Paul was not inconsistent when he resisted Titus’ circumcision but sought Timothy’s."

You’re too loose with
It boils down to motives, does it not?

Interesting is that this could also work in the opposite, eh?

Years ago on u-tube I met a staunch "temporary life" adherent,
who had as many as 16 (all such Scriptures?). I addressed all of
his misrepresentations/misinterpretations with The Plain and
Clear Scriptures (12 Dozen below...), but he never (in one ear
and out the other?) answered me back - interesting, eh?:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided(+ I and II)!

It will hurt for a while and bleed.

Judas is consistently referred to as a betrayer in many verses, not an unbeliever. Is that true?

You a

Perhaps there are exceptions for some motives.
Notwithstanding, there is the potential to be "severed from Christ", to "have fallen away from grace", and for "Christ will be of no value to you at all" under certain circumstances for believers.

this is a person who gets circumcised to get saved. Adding this work to the gospel. or, faith plus works.

people need to get context before they just pull a verse out..

If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include ANY number of good works, which results in "works righteousness."

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is "salvation by works!" I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there!

In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

When I was a teenager, I temporarily attended the church of Christ with my friend and his Aunt. Years later, I ran into my friends Aunt and while discussing church with her, she asked me if I had "remained faithful." Her idea of remaining faithful revolved around whether or not I still attended the church of Christ and held to all of their beliefs. When I told her that I no longer attend that church, but attend a different church now, she acted very uncomfortable and treated me like I was an infidel.

Mat 18:The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

Click to expand...

The picture here illustrates God's forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. In Matthew 18:28, where the servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant such a small debt of a hundred denarii is presented as a repulsive hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine born again Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. Notice that this "unforgiving servant" is called a "wicked" servant because no genuine born again Christian would have such an unforgiving heart. Hearts that are humble and have received God’s grace forgive others from a heart that is saved, but proud and vengeful hearts which do not forgive in such small matters reveal a heart that is unsaved and does not receive God's forgiveness.

Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean they were saved. The children of Israel were referred to as "the Lord’s servants," but they were not all saved.

In Leviticus 25:55, we read - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

In Isaiah 43:10, we read - You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servant, whom I have chosen..

In Nehemiah 1:6, we read - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

Many translations say that the wicked servant was forgiven of his huge debt because he begged or pleaded with his master. Thus, his master showed mercy and forgiveness and the huge debt of the wicked servant was forgiven until his unforgiving nature was discovered. His master in this parable was a man who did not infallibly know his wicked servant's heart (unlike the Lord, Jesus Christ who infallibly knows our hearts) and did not realize that his servant was wicked until his heart was exposed by refusing to forgive one of his fellow servants a small debt and the wicked servant even choked his fellow servant and threw him into prison until he could pay back the small debt. Jesus warned that God cannot forgive us if we have a wicked, unmerciful, unforgiving heart and to be unwilling to forgive in such a small matter would reveal such a wicked heart.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the servant’s debt was forgiven until his unforgiving nature was discovered. In contrast, our sin debt was paid in full by Christ at the cross and is the means for God’s forgiveness. We cannot repay our sin debt to God or earn our salvation and God is not automatically going to forgive us our sin debt simply because we beg or plead with Him with a wicked heart that is unwilling to forgive others, especially in such a small matter, as in the parable. God forgives our sin debt by grace through faith (instrumental means) and forgiveness is the mark of a merciful heart that is saved.

The Lord isn't going to forgive unmerciful, unforgiving, wicked hearts no matter how much we beg and plead, then take back the gift and He also doesn’t order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the debt either. (Matthew 18:25) We could fall to our knees all we want asking the Lord to be patient with us and we will pay back our enormous sin debt (Matthew 18:26) but it's too huge to pay back, so that isn't going to work either.

Unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others, especially in such a small matter, as we saw in Matthew 18:26-35.

Hi Mailmandan. Thanks for the explanation. I agree with much of your post, though the claim that the unforgiving Servant refers to a purely hypothetical case seems a bit forced. If you see Mat 18:35, the Lord Jesus explicitly says that the Heavenly Father will do the same to each of them - and He knew His Apostles etc were genuine believers - if they refuse to forgive their neighbor. Imo, it shows unforgiveness can be a deadly/grave/mortal sin, one of the "sins unto death" mentioned in 1 Jn 5, that can cause us to truly fall from Grace, as it says in Galatians. If OSAS were true, could not the unforgiving Servant have legitimately responded, "Wait a minute, Lord, you already forgave me once; that means I can never be lost" etc? Imo, we have to confess whatever sin we do commit to the Lord, and ask for forgiveness, as it says in 1 Jn 1:9, not only once, but as often as we commit it. For e.g. King David, when he committed adultery, and was rebuked by Nathan the Prophet, confessed his sin, and then found forgiveness.

As for the first passage, I agree faithfulness unto death only requires believing and loving Jesus Christ up until death. Those who do that, and die having the Holy Spirit, will be saved. But even some other OSAS Christians admitted that the Good Works we do when we have the Holy Spirit will have rewards in Heaven, according to 1 Cor 3:8 and 3:13-15, as well as Mat 6 ("storing Treasures in Heaven by giving alms, prayers, fasting etc") and many other passages. Do you agree with that? I agree that Good Works cannot save us, but Good works done with faith in Christ are promised Eternal Rewards in Heaven.

Also, in 2 Pet 1, it is clearly said, that only one's past sins are cleansed when we come to Christ. Some OSASers say, "all one's sins, past, present or future, are taken away by one single act of faith in Christ/sinner's prayer" etc. But the below passage says different.

2 Pet 1:

"
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

It clearly says, "cleansed from past sins", not "future sins" etc, as some OSAS Christians say.

In the end, Salvation is not earned, and is a Grace, because forgiveness is not earned, and is a Grace; the Holy Spirit is not earned, but is the Gift of God; rewards are earned/merited etc, when we do them with faith in Christ, and having the Holy Spirit. Just as OSASers believe Salvation is a Grace because anyone who asks for forgiveness from Jesus Christ Our Lord with faith in His Sacrifice on the Cross even once will be saved (so they say) so also even non OSASers believe Salvation is a Grace because anyone who asks for forgiveness from the Lord, by Grace through faith, will receive the Holy Spirit, either for the first time, or His Presence will come again if we lost Him through sin (as David knew when he prayed: "Take not Thy Holy Spirit from me" after sinning in the Psalms, and whoever dies having the Holy Spirit will be saved, as David did etc.

God Bless.