Jesus is God

This has been covered already, there is another at least one thread called 'Christ is God', but I think there is too much lowering of Jesus' status in these forums at the moment.

When the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus, it was for blasphemy. Jesus was making Himself equal with God. So.. that does not mean that He *wasn't* God. It means He is equal. Jesus is distinct from the Father.. but not inferior. Inferiority.. and you are getting into Polytheism.

Jesus also says to them 'before Abraham was, I AM'... that is a clear reference to God talking to Moses at the burning bush. He is again making Himself equal with God.. and saying those words from God are His words. He is identifying Himself with Yahweh.. the national God of Israel... and beyond that.

Jesus saying 'The Father is greater than I'

With this verse, in the passage He ascends to be one with the Father later, after saying it.

If I say.. the president is greater than I.. is he an ontologically superior being?

No.. he is not. He is a flawed human being like I am, but he is in a greater position.

In Revelation.. this is Jesus' words to the churches.. it also the Holy Spirit's word to the churches.. and then Jesus is referred to with 'Alpha and Omega' terms.. which is used for the Father.

You can't avoid this! Jesus DID claim, indirectly to be God!

Then there is also the Jewish concept of agency.. the messager taking an originators message.. the agent becomes equal to the messenger. So when Jesus says 'by the hand of the Father'.. 'and I and the Father are one'.. things like that... to the Jews... that is saying 'I am God'.. His words are equal to the Fathers.

It goes on and on.. such as 'all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'

And also that Jesus accepted worship of Himself.

'Son' meaning 'image' 'expression' 'manifestation' of God.. not 'inferior, born out of'

If anyone is going to claim Jesus is not God.. equal to the Father.. that is not christianity. It's something else.

Which verse shows Jesus plainly saying "I am Lord God Almighty?" I am not talking about verses that can
be interpreted based on opinion. Where does Jesus plainly, undeniably, unequivocally say "I am Yahweh."

Like all things in the Bible, clear and direct answers are very important.

Do you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ?


John 1:1
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

Thank you. I didn't think there was a plain verse of Jesus claiming to be God.

Which verse shows Jesus plainly saying "I am Lord God Almighty?" I am not talking about verses that can be interpreted based on opinion. Where does Jesus plainly, undeniably, unequivocally say "I am Yahweh."

Like all things in the Bible, clear and direct answers are very important.

Plaine speaking is easy on the earthly level but even plain statements become complex when speaking 'into/out of' the spiritual realm. When Moses asked God, "Who should I say sent me?" God answered, "Tell them, 'I am that I am,' which also means 'I was what I was,' and 'I'll be what I'll be,' and in this sense is how Jesus answered the question, "Are you..." in Mark 14:62, "I am... sitting at the right hand of power...and coming with the clouds of heaven." That is, He wasn't speaking solely of the puffy while accumulations of water vapor.

Thank you. I didn't think there was a plain verse of Jesus claiming to be God.

Any other takers?

The Old Testament is packed with unambiguous and direct quotes attributed to God where He said He is God. No interpretation required. Jesus never said any such things like "I am God." That's the only point I'm making.

John 8:58...Before Abraham was, I am...

John 8
54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

Verse 58 is in reference to the preexistence of Jesus as the Son of God.
58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Yes. It's the same name God told Moses...tell them I am sent me

John 8
54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

Verse 58 is in reference to the preexistence of Jesus as the Son of God.
58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

In John 8:58, Jesus expresses an existence of a different order than that of Abraham by contrasting between Abraham, who “came into being” (genesthai), and He, who simply is (ego eimi). As I have expressed elsewhere on various forums,

By itself, ego eimi does not imply eternal pre-existence; however, when placed alongside genesthai and referring to a time anterior to that indicated by genesthai (“came into being”), ego eimi or its related forms (because it denotes simple existence and is a durative form of the verb “to be”) stands in sharp contrast to the aorist genesthai which speaks of “coming into being.” It is this sharp contrast between being and becoming which makes it clear that in a text like John 8:58 that ego eimi implies eternality, not merely temporal priority. Jesus’ words closely echoes Psalm 90:2, which speaks of the eternal being of God in contrast to those things that “came into being” — “Before the mountains came into being (genethenai) and the earth and world were formed, even from age to age, You are (su ei, second-person equivalent of ego eimi),” Psalm 90:2 (see LXX).

Yes. It's the same name God told Moses...tell them I am sent me

Do you deny the Deity of Jesus Christ?

We can deduce several things about Runningman's theology. He believes in the preexistence of Jesus (as indicated by Post #49), but he also cited a litany of passages in Post #31 of this thread (click me!) to argue that Jesus is not God. Though, by the use of "God" he was conflating it with "the Father."

Putting two-and-two together seems to suggest one of two things. Either Runningman holds to an Arian type Christology, similar to that of the JW's. Or he believes in the eternal preexistence of the Son of God, so you have two eternal divine figures.

Runningman hasn't come out officially and said it; and some of his interpretations don't follow standard Watchtower interpretations. So it may be that he was influenced in his thought by reading JW material. Though this is speculation. It could be that Runningman hears the word "God" and automatically thinks "the Father."

JESUS IS GOD

We can deduce several things about Runningman's theology. He believes in the preexistence of Jesus (as indicated by Post #49), but he also cited a litany of passages in Post #31 of this thread (click me!) to argue that Jesus is not God. Though, by the use of "God" he was conflating it with "the Father."

Putting two-and-two together seems to suggest one of two things. Either Runningman holds to an Arian type Christology, similar to that of the JW's. Or he believes in the eternal preexistence of the Son of God, so you have two eternal divine figures.

Runningman hasn't come out officially and said it; and some of his interpretations don't follow standard Watchtower interpretations. So it may be that he was influenced in his thought by reading JW material. Though this is speculation. It could be that Runningman hears the word "God" and automatically thinks "the Father."

Thank you. I didn't think there was a plain verse of Jesus claiming to be God.

Any other takers?

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Alpha and Omega are Greek letters. Remember, Jesus is often referred to as the Word. Right? This is a reference to power and authority of Jesus’ words, but he isn’t coming out and saying “I am God” there.

Did the Father ever simply say, "I am God"? He said, "I am the LORD thy God," didn't He? What scripture is there that He would've excluded the Son, or the Spirit from His identity?