Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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James is talking about salvation. There are many passages in the NT where it talks about being saved by faith, sometimes it says you’re saved by believing.
Like the OT, there’s often a bit of rooting through the information required because rarely is something succinctly and completely stated in one passage.
When they say “have faith to be saved” shorty thereafter or somewhere in the immediate context they talk about doing something as a requirement to be saved as well, but if it isn’t directly stated “you’re required to have works with your faith” people do exploit that. We have many Bible lawyers.
However, James makes it clear in no vague or uncertain terms because he directly states faith without works is dead. Even going as far as to say this “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
Yes, absolutely justified by faith, but also works. Faith and works go together. Another issue I’m seeing is that some people make “works” almost a derogatory term, a Biblical naughty word. Works aren’t bad.
Imagine if Jesus didn’t have faith and works, but rather opted to call down legion upon legion of angels to slay the opposition. This is a possibility he said he could do and it follows he didn’t have to be sacrificed unless he wanted to do his Father’s will; Jesus could lay down his own life of his own accord.
Like the OT, there’s often a bit of rooting through the information required because rarely is something succinctly and completely stated in one passage.
When they say “have faith to be saved” shorty thereafter or somewhere in the immediate context they talk about doing something as a requirement to be saved as well, but if it isn’t directly stated “you’re required to have works with your faith” people do exploit that. We have many Bible lawyers.
However, James makes it clear in no vague or uncertain terms because he directly states faith without works is dead. Even going as far as to say this “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”
Yes, absolutely justified by faith, but also works. Faith and works go together. Another issue I’m seeing is that some people make “works” almost a derogatory term, a Biblical naughty word. Works aren’t bad.
Imagine if Jesus didn’t have faith and works, but rather opted to call down legion upon legion of angels to slay the opposition. This is a possibility he said he could do and it follows he didn’t have to be sacrificed unless he wanted to do his Father’s will; Jesus could lay down his own life of his own accord.
Bro....I just checked and conducted a word search for "saved", "salvation", "redemption" "forgiveness".
Those terms are NEVER used in the book of James!
The term "justification" IS used....3X.
That should make things much more clear to everyone. I hope.
G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
Those terms are NEVER used in the book of James!
The term "justification" IS used....3X.
That should make things much more clear to everyone. I hope.
G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
- to render righteous or such he ought to be
- to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
- to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
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What I mean by saying that is that this is the way the opponents of a secure salvation always characterize "OSAS" - and by and large they are the vast majority if not the only people I see use the term.
They phrase their arguments as though God is not at work in those He saves, that salvation is secured and kept by human will and effort rather than God's power and Spirit.
For these reasons I never use the term and don't wish to be associated with it. Whether it was the original intention of the acronym or not I don't know, but because of the constant debates it has taken on this connotation of describing a 'salvation' in which God Himself plays little to no role in a Christian's life, instead, the individuals themselves still carry all the burden that we we thought we were laying at the foot of the cross
They phrase their arguments as though God is not at work in those He saves, that salvation is secured and kept by human will and effort rather than God's power and Spirit.
For these reasons I never use the term and don't wish to be associated with it. Whether it was the original intention of the acronym or not I don't know, but because of the constant debates it has taken on this connotation of describing a 'salvation' in which God Himself plays little to no role in a Christian's life, instead, the individuals themselves still carry all the burden that we we thought we were laying at the foot of the cross
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I absolutely agree with that 110%. He is faithful, but I could be unfaithful. He doesn't fail, but I could. Say my parents raised me right. They give me every opportunity they can afford. They take the time to instill values and the right discipline. They teach me to put God first, they take me to church. They have done everything right they could possibly do. Now I become an adult. I fall into a bad group of friends, before long I have an addiction problem. Then I begin to steal for my habit. One night I decide to steal and someone resists, I have a gun and I kill them. Now I'm in prison. Who was unfaithful? Who failed? Who moved? Was it my parents, God? No I made the choice. I believe once you're saved you're always saved, if you remain saved. No one can take you from God, but you can freely walk away. That doesn't make Him unfaithful.
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Rom 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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Ahh, yes I see what you mean.
Well we know better.
It does not take away from God's Sovereignty in any way to say a person hears the Gospel, persuaded and decides to accept the gift.
Accepting is a passive act, but still an act. Even Calvin said so!
Well we know better.
It does not take away from God's Sovereignty in any way to say a person hears the Gospel, persuaded and decides to accept the gift.
Accepting is a passive act, but still an act. Even Calvin said so!
he is still soverign
God is sovereign in that He laid down the method of salvation and set up the terms.
That He put in a condition for salvation, personal belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ, is because of His sovereignty, not a lack thereof.
God is willing that none should perish, but yes there are many that suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
That He put in a condition for salvation, personal belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ, is because of His sovereignty, not a lack thereof.
God is willing that none should perish, but yes there are many that suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
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