Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Definitely.
The word of God states clearly.
If and if and if
If we are "always saved"
Then where is the enduring?
Overcoming?
Where is the battle?
Matthew 24:24
"If it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
There is no battle for salvation, in salvation we accept the free gift.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Not a fan of this website due to its Calvinist leanings but even they agree.

Once a person is saved are they always saved? Yes, when people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. To be clear, salvation is more than saying a prayer or “making a decision” for Christ; salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner is washed, renewed, and born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27; James 2:26). Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:
They agree because of their Calvinist leanings. "salvation is a sovereign act of God"
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Who is the "someone" James says will say these things?


So is James talking about our salvation or our witness before humans that do not believe?
About our justification before God or justification before men?
James is talking about salvation. There are many passages in the NT where it talks about being saved by faith, sometimes it says you’re saved by believing.

Like the OT, there’s often a bit of rooting through the information required because rarely is something succinctly and completely stated in one passage.

When they say “have faith to be saved” shorty thereafter or somewhere in the immediate context they talk about doing something as a requirement to be saved as well, but if it isn’t directly stated “you’re required to have works with your faith” people do exploit that. We have many Bible lawyers.

However, James makes it clear in no vague or uncertain terms because he directly states faith without works is dead. Even going as far as to say this “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.”

Yes, absolutely justified by faith, but also works. Faith and works go together. Another issue I’m seeing is that some people make “works” almost a derogatory term, a Biblical naughty word. Works aren’t bad.

Imagine if Jesus didn’t have faith and works, but rather opted to call down legion upon legion of angels to slay the opposition. This is a possibility he said he could do and it follows he didn’t have to be sacrificed unless he wanted to do his Father’s will; Jesus could lay down his own life of his own accord.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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They agree because of their Calvinist leanings. "salvation is a sovereign act of God"
Ahh, yes I see what you mean.
Well we know better. :)
It does not take away from God's Sovereignty in any way to say a person hears the Gospel, persuaded and decides to accept the gift.
Accepting is a passive act, but still an act. Even Calvin said so! :D
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Definitely.
The word of God states clearly.
If and if and if
If we are "always saved"
Then where is the enduring?
Overcoming?
Where is the battle?
Matthew 24:24
"If it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
The saved do all of that. And also works that are evidence of their faith.
Pretty straightforward really.....

The thing is......so-called OSAS is extremely difficult to DISPROVE. It's got a ton of backing from Scriptures.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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James is talking about ???salvation???.
Bro....I just checked and conducted a word search for "saved", "salvation", "redemption" "forgiveness".
Those terms are NEVER used in the book of James!

The term "justification" IS used....3X.

That should make things much more clear to everyone. I hope.

G1344 - dikaioō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
  1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
  2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
  3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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To use the Judas as an example for either side is a fruitless endeavour, I actually think it displeases God to go into His territory.
I think Judas is a prime example. In fact an intentional type of professor and not possessor. A hearer and not a believer. A pew warmer but not a worshipper. And several other things.

The foil to faithful Peter.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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OSAS does not at all mean that there is no supernatural working of God.

It is the exact opposite, the acronym means the once a person is saved there are always saved because it is a supernatural/spiritual event.
What I mean by saying that is that this is the way the opponents of a secure salvation always characterize "OSAS" - and by and large they are the vast majority if not the only people I see use the term.

They phrase their arguments as though God is not at work in those He saves, that salvation is secured and kept by human will and effort rather than God's power and Spirit.

For these reasons I never use the term and don't wish to be associated with it. Whether it was the original intention of the acronym or not I don't know, but because of the constant debates it has taken on this connotation of describing a 'salvation' in which God Himself plays little to no role in a Christian's life, instead, the individuals themselves still carry all the burden that we we thought we were laying at the foot of the cross
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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They agree because of their Calvinist leanings. "salvation is a sovereign act of God"
Don't paint me with that brush. I am no Calvinist.

The thing is.....both the choice of God and choice of man can exist contemporaneously....in higher dimensional space in a manner of speaking. The Bible speaks to both, sometimes in the same verse.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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I believe that God is at work in the hearts of those He purchased and that He is faithful; He does not fail to complete what He began.

I absolutely agree with that 110%. He is faithful, but I could be unfaithful. He doesn't fail, but I could. Say my parents raised me right. They give me every opportunity they can afford. They take the time to instill values and the right discipline. They teach me to put God first, they take me to church. They have done everything right they could possibly do. Now I become an adult. I fall into a bad group of friends, before long I have an addiction problem. Then I begin to steal for my habit. One night I decide to steal and someone resists, I have a gun and I kill them. Now I'm in prison. Who was unfaithful? Who failed? Who moved? Was it my parents, God? No I made the choice. I believe once you're saved you're always saved, if you remain saved. No one can take you from God, but you can freely walk away. That doesn't make Him unfaithful.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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The passage is about Abraham who had faith and works. Paul is saying faith and works go together, which is what Abraham had. Why are you ignoring that?
Oh yes faith and works DO go together. It's just that one begets the other. And NOT the other way around.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Read more of Romans 2

Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Take this part into consideration "the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel." One of the many facets of Paul's message is that God will judge people by the law. What Paul is trying to tell people with Romans in a very long-winded way is to walk in the Spirit to stay in grace. Do not walk in the flesh to be under God's law.



I think that's your pessimistic view of what the Bible says. I certainly don't share in it, I love God and fear Him at the same time. I'm happy He's for me and not against me.
Rom 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Rom 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Ahh, yes I see what you mean.
Well we know better. :)
It does not take away from God's Sovereignty in any way to say a person hears the Gospel, persuaded and decides to accept the gift.
Accepting is a passive act, but still an act. Even Calvin said so! :D
God is soverign, As soverign God, if it is his will to give everyone who recieves him the gift of salvation according to their free will. and reject those who do not recieve him, it is his right to do.

he is still soverign
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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I absolutely agree with that 110%. He is faithful, but I could be unfaithful. He doesn't fail, but I could. Say my parents raised me right. They give me every opportunity they can afford. They take the time to instill values and the right discipline. They teach me to put God first, they take me to church. They have done everything right they could possibly do. Now I become an adult. I fall into a bad group of friends, before long I have an addiction problem. Then I begin to steal for my habit. One night I decide to steal and someone resists, I have a gun and I kill them. Now I'm in prison. Who was unfaithful? Who failed? Who moved? Was it my parents, God? No I made the choice. I believe once you're saved you're always saved, if you remain saved. No one can take you from God, but you can freely walk away. That doesn't make Him unfaithful.
You never stopped being your parents child.. Just like you never stop being the child of your heavenly father

it is his blood that saved you, it is his blood that continues to save you..
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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God is sovereign, As sovereign God, if it is his will to give everyone who receives him the gift of salvation according to their free will. and reject those who do not receive him, it is his right to do.

he is still sovereign
God is sovereign in that He laid down the method of salvation and set up the terms.

That He put in a condition for salvation, personal belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ, is because of His sovereignty, not a lack thereof.


God is willing that none should perish, but yes there are many that suppress the truth in unrighteousness.