Saddleback Church Ousted from Southern Baptist Convention Over Female Pastor

Evidence, please. ALL of it. References will be sufficient.

I know the Scripture on this subject very well, and don't need to bolster my ego by insulting you.

Debra and Baraak during Judges, the Prophetess Josiah consulted before the Assyrian Siege...and Anna....the prophetess along with Simeon who proclaimed the baby Jesus.

Enough or you want more?
I got more....plenty more.
But THREE instances of WILLFUL spiritual childishness by the people of Israel is more than enough to set a CLEAR precedent and customary sign by God that trouble is coming.

Just because you willfully refuse people are childish in spiritual matters or false claims that the people are all mature doesn't negate the clear and obvious sign to me of exactly the opposite is true.

Quacks like a duck,
Walks like a duck,
Looks like a duck....

In contrast, which instances show the people behaving as geese, that a gander was presiding?

This whole debate reminds me of Jesus’s admonition :

“ They will know we are Christians by our doctrine!”


Oh wait! That’s NOT what He said!

John 13:35
King James Version
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I think this is rebellion against the word of God and it is sexist and it is ignorant.

1. Every believer should have a ministry. There is no distinction between male and female.

2. However, a Pastor is different. The pastor is there to pastor the flock, which includes counsel. If the Pastor is the husband of one wife then it doesn't matter if a brother or sister needs fellowship because you have a husband and wife team. It is not appropriate for a woman to have private, secret counseling with the male pastor just as it is not appropriate for man to have private, secret counseling with a female pastor. We are not told to simply flee from sin but to avoid all appearance of evil. With all the sex scandals plaguing Christianity this is just common sense and prudent.

Anyone who says that Paul was sexist is ignorant or willfully malicious. Paul required that pastors be a husband and wife team.

3. The ignorance is far deeper. Anyone who is familiar with counseling in a church knows that it is about 60% marriage counseling and perhaps 25% counseling for singles wanting to get married. So how idiotic to have a pastor who is not married. 85% of your ministry is about marriage.

This is like getting a lifeguard who has never gone swimming.

The instance of Jeremiah came after the clear warnings.
He got ignored too....and then Babylon came calling.

Women Pastors are a first sign....the next one is much worse.

Of course the people ignore, excuse, blame shift, and use every other possible explanation for not being guilty.
That's SOOOO human it's ridiculous.

Let's just say that God isn't so easily dissuaded from reality. We have just had a plague. If we want more problems then just keep on doing the exact same things as before. God's "common" grace has limits...

Al instances in post #142 are old testament, before Jesus made His sacrifice and ALL things became new in Him.

Yes by the standards of this world God is sexist. We, male and female are His creation. Look around in todays world this is the world some want to be like , rejecting both male and female , making their own creation. . Looks like the churches , not the body of Christ, are following suit.
Why do we want to redo what God has done. Do we really think we can do better? Wont be long and main stream churches will be following the lead of trans-pastors. Evil grows like cancer the soon one gets rid of the cancer the better.

A Lutheran pastor in California has become the first transgender bishop in a major American Christian denomination.

As the first transgender reverend in Latin America at the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC)

"For me as a non-binary person, I've been to so many churches where they don't have a bathroom that I feel like I can use," says AJ Buckley, an Episcopal priest in Portland, Ore. "And so I'll just not go to the bathroom there."

and the scriptures referred too were the OT didn't have the new yet.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And even before the Council at Nicaea they were letters not compiled in one NT.

Nope

Anna was a prophetess in the New Testament....she proclaimed that the infant Jesus was indeed the Messiah.

And Jesus used the Samaritan Woman to proclaimed God was there (Messiah) to the Samaritan village.

Again and again....women preaching is a sign of Spiritual Immaturity.

All were before He made His sacrifice completing the new covenant, thus they were still under the old covenant.

if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

2 Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

This may be the most difficult word for anyone these days to receive. I was watching "The Five" yesterday on Fox news and they were commenting on Kamala Harris' husband talking about "toxic masculinity". The Judge on Fox Five commented that since men are no longer masculine they are forcing women to do it. Someone has to stand up when there are abusive, violent people just like in the Old Westerns. If the woman wants to be pretty, and lovely and feminine then she needs a man who will punch the cads in the nose.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head.

It is shameful for men to act like a wuss.

5 But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven.

Do women need to shave? Is she a gorilla? Because this is where all this women's lib leads.

6 For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.

Why are you picking a fight? If women really want to wear the pants then they have to get into the ring with Mike Tyson. This is foolish. You cannot argue that women are going to wear the pants while also arguing it is a crime for Mike Tyson to punch a woman. This isn't some absurd punishment. If you get into a fight with long hair it is simple to grab your hair and throw you to the ground. This is why warriors have crew cuts.

7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head veiled, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

When it is time to fight it is shameful if the men all run and hide. You are the image and glory of God, so stand up and be a man.

8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man: 9 for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man: 10 for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.

It is the man's job to protect the woman, not the other way around.

11 Nevertheless, neither is the woman without the man, nor the man without the woman, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, so is the man also by the woman; but all things are of God.

If you want women to be the president, then who takes care of the children? If the woman wants to be a great leader who changes history, do it by raising up children who become men and women of faith.

13 Judge ye in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled?

This is the most ridiculously obvious question. The biggest and most powerful goal anyone could have is to be a person that when they pray God listens. Now if God's word talks about women having your heads covered do you really think He would listen to your prayers if you ignore that?

One of the most powerful portions of scripture is Jeremiah 31. Jeremiah is looking for someone who can move God to rescue Israel. God will not listen to Abraham or to Moses, but then he finds Rachel and God will listen to her. Why is it that Rachel had power with God? It goes back to the story of Reuben's mandrakes. Rachel and Leah were in a bitter rivalry over having children. Leah had four and both of the hand maids each had two and yet Rachel had none. Finally she decides instead of this great rivalry I'd rather be a loving aunt who is part of the family even if I don't have children. So she sees that Reuben has given his mother some wildflowers and she asks Leah if she could have some of them that she could also put on her table. Leah tells her how upset she is with Rachel for stealing her husband and for the first time Rachel sees everything that happened from her point of view and she is able to rescue the situation and restore Leah's relationship with Jacob. As a result she became the mother of Israel, the mother of all the children, not just hers. This is why she has power with God in prayer.

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

Anyone who has ever been in a street fight knows this.

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Anyone who has ever been to a beauty contest knows this.

16 But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Hey if you don't want to wear a head covering no problem, let's see how that works out for you.

It appears to me that you're ranting, because your language is disjointed and your examples are ludicrous. They don't even begin to support your assertion. Further, if you can't make your point without implying insults, your position is flawed.

The Joels and Jeremiahs are next with that kind of attitude.

It's obvious that you are never ever wrong....and will continue to believe that when Babylon is destroying your temple.
Gonna put Jeremiah in the cistern because you don't like what he says?

1 Tim 2:11-15 and 1 Peter 3:1-7 are talking about the exact same thing. Take your time to read them both and you can't help but get the idea that this must have been a teaching that was often shared to the churches. Peter might even have been quoting Paul. If so then Peter's text gives us a more verbose explanation and makes it clearer that the subject is about wives and husbands not about whether a female is called to preach the word or teach the word or pastor churches. This of course has been argued about and will continue to be so, but the truth is that the Holy Spirit made it clear that women were included in the call to TEACH all nations by giving them Power to be Witnesses on the day of Pentecost when they SPOKE prophetic utterances and were sent to all nations just as all the 120 in the Upper room that day.

The Assemblies of God has always ordained women and hundreds of thousands of them have been empowered as evangelists, pastors, missionaries world wide.

To think that God would say "your a female so therefore you cannot pastor a church" is not who Jesus showed the Father to be. It is obvious that people have misunderstood the 1 Tim 2 and 1 Cor 14 througout church history. As they have other verses they have used to justify Pharisiacal attitudes


1 Pet 3
Christian Standard Bible Par ▾
Wives and Husbands
1In the same way, wives,a submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, even if some disobey the word,b they may be won overc without a word by the way their wives lived 2when they observe your pure, reverent lives.a 3Don’t let your beauty consist of outward things like elaborate hairstyles and wearing gold jewelry or fine clothes,a 4but rather what is inside the hearta a — the imperishable quality of a gentleb and quietc spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5For in the past, the holya women who put their hopeb in God also adorned themselves in this way, submitting to their own husbands, 6just as Saraha obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. You have become her children when you do what is good and do not fear any intimidation.b
7Husbands,a in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker partner,b showing them honor as coheirs of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

1 Tim 2
8Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument.a 9Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing,a with decency and good sense, not with elaborate hairstyles, gold,b pearls, or expensive apparel, 10but with good works,a as is proper for women who profess to worship God. 11A woman is to learn quietly with full submission.a 12I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.a 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.a 15But she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness,a with good sense.

As are the Commandants which of those are you willing and purposefully defy?

I’m not the one getting upset.

The Assemblies of God has always ordained women and hundreds of thousands of them have been empowered as evangelists, pastors, missionaries world wide.
The above statement is close but not exactly
1914

In 1935, however, the Assemblies of God reversed the prohibition of female elders enacted in 1914 and authorized the ordination of women as elders or pastors. ordained, licensed and specialized licensed Assemblies of God ministers were female.

Look at the trash the AofG is today.