Omitted verses.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#41
I like to look directly at the difference in translation between the two languages and then consider whether the appropriate meaning is consistent.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,995
927
113
#42
To be honest,, much of the Kjv does not quite mean the same thing as the Chinese version

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and rule it; To rule over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the earth."【here is the Chinese Bible version

KJV 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
I couldn't understand Chinese but google is helpful. Here is the traditional Chinese Union Version 1919 of Genesis 1:28. To subdue is to have dominion, control, or govern. There are I think differences between governing and managing. I refer you to the link below:
https://reportcenter.highered.texas.gov/training-materials/handouts/governance-vs-management. Subdue is to make a rule over which is the same as dominion over, that is man is above or over the animals or other created beings. The Chinese " Zhili" simply means governance.

Subdue.JPG
Now for theCUV,

神 就 賜 福 給 他 們 , 又 對 他 們 說 : 要 生 養 眾 多 , 遍 滿 地 面 , 治 理 這 地 , 也 要 管 理 海 裡 的 魚 、 空 中 的 鳥 , 和 地 上 各 樣 行 動 的 活 物 。
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,729
13,400
113
#43
for example, the NIV has omitted 30-40 verses.
No, it has not. The translation committee for the NIV determined after thorough examination of the source documents that these verses did not belong in the first place. The KJV is not the standard; the original-language manuscripts are.

The KJ Bible is known as God's Bible as the His Holy Spirit authored it.
Um, no. The Holy Spirit authored the original texts, not the translations.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,931
797
113
#44
I'm not sure what you mean by "canonical." If you mean are there certain manuscripts that are accepted as authoritative like the 66 books of the Bible are considered authoritative, then I'd have to say no; the answer you get will depend on who you ask. All you can do really is research each manuscript family and come to your own conclusions. Basically it boils down to Textus Receptus/Majority Text vs. NA/UBS Greek New Testament. If you want to research it I'd start there.

You might be able to find some books in your local library; or if not they might be able to order something for you through interlibrary loan.
Canon means signifying a standard to which books are scripture. the only books that are scripture are the ones that the Holy Spirit authored. the books of God's Bible became scripture the moment they were written. for example, the so-called Apocraphyl books are NOT missing because they were never supposed to be there in the 1st place & that's because they were not Holy Spirit inspired. they were man written. read 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 & 2nd Peter 1:20,21.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,931
797
113
#45
No, it has not. The translation committee for the NIV determined after thorough examination of the source documents that these verses did not belong in the first place. The KJV is not the standard; the original-language manuscripts are.


Um, no. The Holy Spirit authored the original texts, not the translations.
I do mean the original texts.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,593
3,179
113
#46
Canon means signifying a standard to which books are scripture. the only books that are scripture are the ones that the Holy Spirit authored. the books of God's Bible became scripture the moment they were written. for example, the so-called Apocraphyl books are NOT missing because they were never supposed to be there in the 1st place & that's because they were not Holy Spirit inspired. they were man written. read 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 & 2nd Peter 1:20,21.
Good to know.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#47
I couldn't understand Chinese but google is helpful. Here is the traditional Chinese Union Version 1919 of Genesis 1:28. To subdue is to have dominion, control, or govern. There are I think differences between governing and managing. I refer you to the link below:
https://reportcenter.highered.texas.gov/training-materials/handouts/governance-vs-management. Subdue is to make a rule over which is the same as dominion over, that is man is above or over the animals or other created beings. The Chinese " Zhili" simply means governance.

View attachment 249172
Now for theCUV,

神 就 賜 福 給 他 們 , 又 對 他 們 說 : 要 生 養 眾 多 , 遍 滿 地 面 , 治 理 這 地 , 也 要 管 理 海 裡 的 魚 、 空 中 的 鳥 , 和 地 上 各 樣 行 動 的 活 物 。
Governance

So yes, it should be the Governance.
I used a mistranslation, just like the mistranslation that can happen in a biblical version.


Really appreciate your help.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,664
3,541
113
#48
No, it has not. The translation committee for the NIV determined after thorough examination of the source documents that these verses did not belong in the first place. The KJV is not the standard; the original-language manuscripts are.


Um, no. The Holy Spirit authored the original texts, not the translations.
First, we do not have the originals. Second, a translation can be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
 
Jan 4, 2023
43
15
8
#49
it may be difficult to find a reliable source but they are out there that tell the truth which bibles omit verses. for example, the NIV has omitted 30-40 verses, don't know the exact #. But know this: all born again Christians are indwell with the Holy Spirit. read 2nd Thessalonians 2:7 & 15. Plus John 16;13. the KJ Bible is known as God's Bible as the His Holy Spirit authored it. Many people don't know that the Holy Spirit authored the Bible & there is no way that God would have us without His true word for all of humanity.
Oh, I sincerely thank you. I'm sure many people need to read those encouragements. I've known that since I was saved when I was 40 years old (I'm now 75 years old). Interesting to me, the Old testament men and women were "missing" the New testament but they did have inspired scripture and were saved by faith in the future Christ. They had the same faith that I do, which is God-enabled and God given through no work of my own. I love the story of John Calvin as he walked on a muddy road through fields, sad and troubled by his sorry state of not living up to God's standards. He was a tender hearted young man self- condemned by his inescapable knowledge of the utter sinfulness of his own sin, and then, by his own testimony a verse floated into his mind "The just shall live by faith" and since he well understood the context of the verse that he hadn't really understood before, all that he already knew about salvation in the Bible suddenly made sense and it set him free from his bondage to sin and death, and he became the spear point of the Reformation. Martin Luther, given to us by God! It greatly moves me to tell that story because I experienced the same liberation from self condemnation and it makes the tears flow, although I was a hard, angry man, not at all tenderhearted like Martin Luther. I'm still dismantling anger structures in my mind. It's good to have these demonstrations of the importance of making sure the Writings are well established in our minds and hearts. I love and respect all my brothers and sisters who are looking on.
 
Dec 7, 2022
45
13
8
#50
According to your view then, either the KJV is in great error or the new versions are in great error. At least we're getting somewhere.;)
The KJV is more unreliable than most others. The KJV translators ADDED many things that translation like the NIV corrected. The KJV translators were bent on using fear are a conversion tool by adding the word HELL where it should not be.
 
Dec 7, 2022
45
13
8
#51
First, we do not have the originals. Second, a translation can be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
A translation CANNOT be Inspired. To say such a thing throws a wrench into Christianity with an Agnostic or Atheist. Anybody can destroy that argument. Only the original documents were inspired.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,729
13,400
113
#52
First, we do not have the originals. Second, a translation can be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Which says nothing at all about whether a particular translation made after the close of the canon was inspired.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,664
3,541
113
#53
A translation CANNOT be Inspired. To say such a thing throws a wrench into Christianity with an Agnostic or Atheist. Anybody can destroy that argument. Only the original documents were inspired.
You do know that the “originals” contained translations throughout. And those translations makeup the inspired texts.

One thing is for certain, he’ll has cooled off in the new versions.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,729
13,400
113
#54
You do know that the “originals” contained translations throughout. And those translations makeup the inspired texts.
Once again you are employing a fallacy.

One thing is for certain, he’ll has cooled off in the new versions.
“He’ll” has cooled off? Proofread your posts please.

To your point, it’s ridiculous. You’re just throwing shade in a vain attempt to bolster your personal beliefs.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,664
3,541
113
#55
Once again you are employing a fallacy.
Please explain how my statement is a fallacy? The statement concerning the originals containing translations throughout...thanks.
 
Jan 4, 2023
43
15
8
#56
Why are you guys using typical worldly social media style hostility and derision to try to nake your points? Where is your love for one another, I don't see it. This thread feels just like FaceBook hostile chat. If this is standard ChristianChat fare, I can't attend.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,393
739
113
#57
Why are you guys using typical worldly social media style hostility and derision to try to nake your points? Where is your love for one another, I don't see it. This thread feels just like FaceBook hostile chat. If this is standard ChristianChat fare, I can't attend.
Yeah, to make study easier, I just use BibleGateway and Bible Hub for parallel bible study and council from the Holy Spirit. I don't know why anyone would just stick with one translation. Or even argue over this.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,593
3,179
113
#58
Why are you guys using typical worldly social media style hostility and derision to try to nake your points? Where is your love for one another, I don't see it. This thread feels just like FaceBook hostile chat. If this is standard ChristianChat fare, I can't attend.
Hi Ragged. Did you see this book I posted? Thought it might help; or maybe not. Here's the link to a free PDF.

https://kjvpure.org/kjvpure/MissingInModernBibles.pdf
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,729
13,400
113
#59
Please explain how my statement is a fallacy? The statement concerning the originals containing translations throughout...thanks.
Don't play dumb; it's beneath you. You are clearly implying that an entire translation of Scripture can be inspired, which is employing a fallacy of equivocation. No-one is arguing that the Scripture doesn't contain some translated speech or text. Where you go wrong is in thinking that the recorded translation itself is inspired. If that were a sound argument, then for consistency you must also argue that the lies recorded in Scripture were inspired. The inspiration of Scripture is not in the inspiration of every spoken word that was recorded, but in the reliability (accuracy) of the record itself. Inspired Scripture includes the statement, "There is no God", but inspired Scripture does not teach that there is no God; rather, it states, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,031
26,154
113
#60
Don't play dumb; it's beneath you. You are clearly implying that an entire translation of Scripture can be inspired, which is employing a fallacy of equivocation. No-one is arguing that the Scripture doesn't contain some translated speech or text. Where you go wrong is in thinking that the recorded translation itself is inspired. If that were a sound argument, then for consistency you must also argue that the lies recorded in Scripture were inspired. The inspiration of Scripture is not in the inspiration of every spoken word that was recorded, but in the reliability (accuracy) of the record itself. Inspired Scripture includes the statement, "There is no God", but inspired Scripture does not teach that there is no God; rather, it states, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Surely he meant only that the KJ translation is inspired.