Hello I think I have a problem about doctrine.

My response is to say that salvation is totally free by grace through faith [which also is given to us] it is entirely of God and nothing of us.

Blessing and discipleship depends upon obedience.

You cain't lose salvation but you sure as can miss out or lose the blessings thereof. As disciples we can go astray, fall from grace ... we must remedy that.

Joyce Meyer is alright but she is a bit grumpy isn't she. She is all look at me, I had it tough, it was hard for me so get on with it.

That is the way of ALL faith teachers.

Further

Obedience to me is just one thing to me, it is staying on redemption ground. Stay at the cross. There we surrender our very selves INCLUDING OUR WILL to the Lordship of Christ

90% of christians follow up their salvation with discipleship class or they follow one teacher or another and they learn all about "freewill" and how they must choose and decide .... that's how we got into trouble in the first place. Because our will is NOT free it is in bondage.

What we need is not to choose or decide but to WAIT UPON GOD for Him to reveal HIS good and perfect will for us, and He will, it is His good pleasure to.

Freewill faith teaching is deadly.

He's ok ol Mac ... apart from his stance on the gifts

this guy is just a clown

you had it right first time

There is no record of any of the apostles attaining salvation by doing good deeds, once they were saved they did plenty good.

Paul got saved while in the heat of dragging innocent men and women off to prison. God knocked him off his zeal for works horse.

Then how could there be "free will offerings" in the Bible? I believe it was Martin Luther who came up with this false "bondage" idea. But the Bible is quite clear. Every person has a conscience, and every person can either obey "the law" which is within the conscience or disobey it. See Romans chapter 2.

The same goes for a response to the Gospel. Paul says about the unbelieving Jews that "they have not all obeyed the Gospel" (Rom 10:16). Could they all have done so? Absolutely. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. (Rom 10:21) By stretching forth His hands, did God not expect all to come to repentance? Absolutely! And does God now not COMMAND ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent? Absolutely. If the will was in bondage how could God make such an "unreasonable" demand?

Hebrews 2:14-16

Ad hominems come those who cant find a real argument.

AHH good for you. You found it

One of only 3 mentions of human freewill in the entire bible, good for you.

You'd think when listening to preachers it is in every paragraph and every sentence, just like evolution is in every science book. It's BRAINWASH.

Each of the 3 mentions of freewill is in connection with offerings, in the OT. This is because God never demands back something He has freely given so it has to be a freewill offering, And in one of the mentions it actually says God moved the hearts of those who should give.

What apostle ever wrote
"Thanks be unto God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ whom we have chosen by our own freewill"

It's laughable isn't it, it's awful. But it is what folks are being taught.

Everywhere it is God who chose us.

Just a question...
Can someone through conscience alone truly obey from an uncircumcised heart?
They obviously can observe an outward obedience and appear even as whited sepulchers. But have they truly kept the commandment if they have not kept it both inwardly and outwardly?

why do folks find it so hard to understand? their disobedience and their gainsaying held their will in bondage, if their will had been free they would have obeyed.

That is a good question which many cite 1 Corinthians 2:14 to counter, but nothing goes uncontested, not even that..


1 Corinthians 2:14 + 14

Easy!!! YOU'RE COMPLETELY WRONG!!! NO AMOUNT OF "good works" contributes anything to your salvation. Being Born Again BY FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross, is what cleanses you form your SIN, and makes you perfect before God. nothing else counts.

THEN - Your "Works" WILL BE TESTED at Jesus' judgement seat, and in some way, your status and function in the Heavenly kingdom will be based on what you DID with what you were GIVEN (1 Cor 3:12-15). SO your "SALVATION" isn't related to your "Works", but your "Sanctification"/"Christian maturity" is related to them.

EVERYBODY Knows Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

But it's Rom 8:29 that DEFINES the "Good" that all things work together for: "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".

Some of that "Good" doesn't necessarily SEEM very good, when you're being "processed" into a different form as you go through life.

In Job's case, God was after TWO things ("Leviathan" = personal pride, and "Behemoth" = Job's tendency to do things in HIS OWN strength) and the process God put Job through to bring him to repentance ( Job 42:6) was anything but pleasant.

Are you contesting my contestation?

For some, unfortunately, it is.

1 Corinthians 11:19

brother salvation is offered as a future promise by God here by this simple condition with his own words from his own risen mouth after he accomplished the work of salvation for us

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thisnis what everyone is referring to when they speak of bieng saved in the epistles and it’s who the people reading the epistles were. The apostles and disciples called to do so went out everywhere preaching the gospel and baptizing everyone in Jesus name for remission of sins , people were receiving the holy spirit everywhere just like we read of in acts God was truly pouring out his spirit freely to people who believed as Jesus promised in the gospel

then the apostles stayed a couple years then moved on those places established (see acts 20 for an example of this )

those people who believed and received the spirit formed groups in thier areas and began meeting. Later the apostles wrote letters to establish better doctrine and understandings because they would hear of issues and things they weren’t understanding and doing right. So what I mean to say is for example Ephesians is a single letter to believers like this part of the letter states

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

( a few excerpts of what he’s saying to then initially in this single letter addressed to those folks )

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:1-6, 11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This in Paul’s introduction of the single letter to the believers at Ephesus , is about a promise they all had because they believed and were baptized and it’s all true every word of it’s true but he hasn’t finished telling them what he’s telling them so my point is that part doesn’t exclude or alter this part they are part of a message to the same people when he finally is getting to the concluding point of his letter his message to those same people he warning them of something that’s coming from what he’s been saying all along

in other words the whole letter is true and Paul had built up to this important point as well as the rest this dire and clear warning

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you don’t inherit the kingdom which is what the gospel is about you don’t inherit the promise of eternal
Life which Jesus promises to those who believe his word , and repent.

Amy simple Both chapter one telling of the inheritance and election and the warnings and teachings of Paul about not inheriting the inheritance in Gods kingdom of we keep serving sin are all true and part of the same complete message

what he said in one builds up to what he said in five it doesn’t eliminate it is all I mean to say it’s hard for anyone to read a whole epistle but it really is a complete letter and message for believers and tells us if we do t take this seriously now in this life we’re not going to receive what we think

I’d say you can’t lose salvation because it’s not something we actually have attained yet it’s something we believe for in the future based in the promises Jesus made to us regarding salvation and also warnings like this one

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬

We can’t lose salvation because it’s something we wait for in faith and faithfulness repentance and righteousness is our path imperfection surely but we have a focus and goal always to do right and good in deed and truth and we know repentance well

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re meant to be saved from the wrath coming upon the world and all souls of men who reject Christ

“and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We aren’t saved from natural death but the second death at judgement

What I’m saying is this

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:11‬ ‭

“Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:14-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬