Hello I think I have a problem about doctrine.

you had it right first time

What I’m saying is this

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:11‬ ‭

You sure took the scenic route to say it. But okay with me. I like sniffing a few flowers along the way.

yeah I think it’s better when scripture says it it’s hard sometimes to understand much of we do this

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then say this the next verses arent part of it that’s meant for you

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

Do you see how the understanding changes from “ you’re already saved by grace there are no works involved “

This if we read a bigger section


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

So it goes from your already saved by grace there are no works , to “ you were saved by grace before you ever did anything without a work for the purpose of doing good works God ordained beforehand for you to walk in ( do )

when read this

“in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to allow this also to be true because it completes the understanding

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

often we read a sentence in the introduction of a letter and use it to try to discredit the conclusions of the letter is my point as poorly articulated as is common to myself lol

I thought it was all excellent. If I can't say something in a few sentences I will lose track. So anything over a paragraph takes me on a journey.

But have they truly kept the commandment if they have not kept it both inwardly and outwardly?

This is not necessarily about keeping the commandments but doing right vs doing wrong. There are many unsaved who do righteous deeds because their conscience will not allow them to do otherwise.

For example, take medical doctors prior to the bogus COVID pandemic. Regardless of race, religion, or nationality, they all took the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm". And the majority of doctors did the right thing by their patients. There are always bad eggs, but in general the public could trust medical doctors to do right.

You sure took the scenic route to say it. But okay with me. I like sniffing a few flowers along the way.

I'm not very active here I don't know what various believers here believe. I don't mind differences in the jots and tittles, such as dunking versus sprinkling, the various eschatologies for the most part, who reads which Bible for the most part, and I don't divide with believers about some of the heavier things such as the preservation of the saints. But what does bug me is when rightness-with-God through works creeps in to teachings. So I really hope I don't offend any reader's sensibilities, and I will refuse to joust with anyone over this, but I must ask about Joyce Meyer. It turns out that influential people in my church follow her. To me the wellspring of her preaching flows from her belief that God blessed Abraham because of Abraham's obedience, and spins it out to mean that for every believer who is in want, it is essentially a matter of lack of obedience and we better get our acts straight before God can bless us. Please let me state the way I see this: before Abraham obeyed, God told him to leave his people and his land and go to a strange Land where God will bless him and multiply him into many nations. Then, when Abraham's hand was raised and about to come down, God restrained him, provided a sacrifice, and continued to keep his promises to Abraham. Whenever I think deeply enough about that I just melt because it's a story about me and how God unilaterally moved me out of the world into a new place of various kinds of richness and peace and a certain knowledge that God will never leave me nor forsake me not even through the death of my body, which by the way is dying and in pain, and I see no conditions placed on that promise. I'm still on the precipice when it comes to the question of whether, when God called me, (and he did, one day 35 yrs ago while I was in a 2 1/2 hour commute, through radio ministries), whether I obeyed His call by my own human will or I was drawn by God's irresistible grace. It sure seems like I responded immediately to His grace snd the presence of His Person.
Actually I tend to think it may be an improper question and only God really knows what happens right there. So to finish, maybe some people can please advise me on what to do about this discovery of possible works related righteousness in dome of the main thinkers in my church? I do know that kind words are better than wrath, and that no one is unwillingly taught. At least I've learned that by now. TY.

If try to say a sentance or two I end up quoting thirteen scriptures lol probably all that doge gone chili I been eating I bet “the chili makes me do it “

This thread is now about chili.

John 6:68 KJV
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

I'm not very active here I don't know what various believers here believe. I don't mind differences in the jots and tittles, such as dunking versus sprinkling, the various eschatologies for the most part, who reads which Bible for the most part, and I don't divide with believers about some of the heavier things such as the preservation of the saints. But what does bug me is when rightness-with-God through works creeps in to teachings. So I really hope I don't offend any reader's sensibilities, and I will refuse to joust with anyone over this, but I must ask about Joyce Meyer. It turns out that influential people in my church follow her. To me the wellspring of her preaching flows from her belief that God blessed Abraham because of Abraham's obedience, and spins it out to mean that for every believer who is in want, it is essentially a matter of lack of obedience and we better get our acts straight before God can bless us. Please let me state the way I see this: before Abraham obeyed, God told him to leave his people and his land and go to a strange Land where God will bless him and multiply him into many nations. Then, when Abraham's hand was raised and about to come down, God restrained him, provided a sacrifice, and continued to keep his promises to Abraham. Whenever I think deeply enough about that I just melt because it's a story about me and how God unilaterally moved me out of the world into a new place of various kinds of richness and peace and a certain knowledge that God will never leave me nor forsake me not even through the death of my body, which by the way is dying and in pain, and I see no conditions placed on that promise. I'm still on the precipice when it comes to the question of whether, when God called me, (and he did, one day 35 yrs ago while I was in a 2 1/2 hour commute, through radio ministries), whether I obeyed His call by my own human will or I was drawn by God's irresistible grace. It sure seems like I responded immediately to His grace snd the presence of His Person.
Actually I tend to think it may be an improper question and only God really knows what happens right there. So to finish, maybe some people can please advise me on what to do about this discovery of possible works related righteousness in dome of the main thinkers in my church? I do know that kind words are better than wrath, and that no one is unwillingly taught. At least I've learned that by now. TY.

I like flowers too, but mine are unscented .

What's the point of having unscented flowers? Flowers and fragrances go together.

I'm not very active here I don't know what various believers here believe. I don't mind differences in the jots and tittles, such as dunking versus sprinkling, the various eschatologies for the most part, who reads which Bible for the most part, and I don't divide with believers about some of the heavier things such as the preservation of the saints. But what does bug me is when rightness-with-God through works creeps in to teachings. So I really hope I don't offend any reader's sensibilities, and I will refuse to joust with anyone over this, but I must ask about Joyce Meyer. It turns out that influential people in my church follow her. To me the wellspring of her preaching flows from her belief that God blessed Abraham because of Abraham's obedience, and spins it out to mean that for every believer who is in want, it is essentially a matter of lack of obedience and we better get our acts straight before God can bless us. Please let me state the way I see this: before Abraham obeyed, God told him to leave his people and his land and go to a strange Land where God will bless him and multiply him into many nations. Then, when Abraham's hand was raised and about to come down, God restrained him, provided a sacrifice, and continued to keep his promises to Abraham. Whenever I think deeply enough about that I just melt because it's a story about me and how God unilaterally moved me out of the world into a new place of various kinds of richness and peace and a certain knowledge that God will never leave me nor forsake me not even through the death of my body, which by the way is dying and in pain, and I see no conditions placed on that promise. I'm still on the precipice when it comes to the question of whether, when God called me, (and he did, one day 35 yrs ago while I was in a 2 1/2 hour commute, through radio ministries), whether I obeyed His call by my own human will or I was drawn by God's irresistible grace. It sure seems like I responded immediately to His grace snd the presence of His Person.
Actually I tend to think it may be an improper question and only God really knows what happens right there. So to finish, maybe some people can please advise me on what to do about this discovery of possible works related righteousness in dome of the main thinkers in my church? I do know that kind words are better than wrath, and that no one is unwillingly taught. At least I've learned that by now. TY.

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭