Signs and wonders.

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Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#1
Hi how are you today. 😊

I believe that some people need more belief and convincing that God is real more than other people do.

This is where God will will show people different signs that he is real. Through miracles through spirits ( misty) through light, through prophecy.

And then it doesn't stop there, the new converts who come to God still need convincing, and God will again show them something wonderful or something un-explained, that Somebody else would wonder why didn't that happen to me.

Well could it be it was because they didn't need as much convincing. 😊

Because they where not in as much grievance when they came to God. So God had to repeatedly show an individual signs and wonders.
 
Feb 21, 2016
758
175
43
#2
I feel like some people just have that faith where they don't need to see a sign or wonder.Even for a new believer.But a lot of Christians wont grow on it.Then they become like a sleeping giant.They could have been mighty for the Church.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#3
Didnt Jesus say something to the effect of, a perverse generation seeks a sign but none will be given.

We have a sign, is called the scripture, which is the witness of Christ. We also have that the things he said came to pass. He warned his disciples of the pending doom and it happened as he predicted 40 years later in 70 ad. It is the historical record of his true witness.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#4
I feel like some people just have that faith where they don't need to see a sign or wonder.Even for a new believer.But a lot of Christians wont grow on it.Then they become like a sleeping giant.They could have been mighty for the Church.
Signs and wonders are for those who already believe. It is a sinful generation of men who seek after a sign for neither do they believe nor will they believe, and they have received already the sign of Jonah.
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#5
Many probably wonder how so many are already deceived and will be deceived in the time to come. As always, we can find the answers to this in scripture and we can start with what Jesus had to say.

“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” Matthew 24: 3-5​

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7: 15-23

The op is distinctly and very wrong in saying that signs and wonders are given for people to accept Jesus as their Savior.

The only way to God is through Jesus, His only Son by faith. It is faith alone that pleases God. We can go back as far as the OT to affirm that is the truth. Jesus was not just a great prophet as some say. He is God incarnate and the expression of God, the Father and He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Jesus warned us that many false prophets will arise and through the power of the devil, they will fool so many that unless God Himself intervenes, even the very elect will be fooled by these lying wonders.


For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24

Do not listen to those who falsely proclaim that signs and wonders (also known as miracles) are the way to know God or that those who perform them are godly. They are not godly and are not sent by God. Christians, that is those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior, may actually experience the Holy Spirit working through them and will see the spiritual gifts in operation BUT that is not what the op is talking about.

Lies are easy to spot when you study the Bible and renew your mind according to that book and turn from sin and believe what God says. We renew our minds by agreeing with the Bible. This simply means agree with what God says in His word so that you can refute the lies and the lying signs and wonders.

Know what is real and you will not be fooled by demonic spirits ushering in an age of false miracles.

Do not pursue manifestations. That is another way to be deceived. Rather pursue God and He will work in your life and church according to His word and we know that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ and not to make a show or gather people with itching ears.

Be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,168
4,936
113
#6
Signs and wonders witnessed the truth of what’s in the New Testament

Signs and wonders accomplished by the Holy Ghost witness of the truth of the gospel it’s why the scriptures stood the test of time and why early Christian’s laid thier lives down they knew it was true because they lived it and saw it and experienced it
“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,

and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭

if the gospel hadn’t been preached with convincing proof it wouldn’t have won the hearts of people and stood the test of time
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#7
Many probably wonder how so many are already deceived and will be deceived in the time to come. As always, we can find the answers to this in scripture and we can start with what Jesus had to say.

“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” Matthew 24: 3-5​


Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7: 15-23

The op is distinctly and very wrong in saying that signs and wonders are given for people to accept Jesus as their Savior.

The only way to God is through Jesus, His only Son by faith. It is faith alone that pleases God. We can go back as far as the OT to affirm that is the truth. Jesus was not just a great prophet as some say. He is God incarnate and the expression of God, the Father and He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Jesus warned us that many false prophets will arise and through the power of the devil, they will fool so many that unless God Himself intervenes, even the very elect will be fooled by these lying wonders.


For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24

Do not listen to those who falsely proclaim that signs and wonders (also known as miracles) are the way to know God or that those who perform them are godly. They are not godly and are not sent by God. Christians, that is those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior, may actually experience the Holy Spirit working through them and will see the spiritual gifts in operation BUT that is not what the op is talking about.

Lies are easy to spot when you study the Bible and renew your mind according to that book and turn from sin and believe what God says. We renew our minds by agreeing with the Bible. This simply means agree with what God says in His word so that you can refute the lies and the lying signs and wonders.

Know what is real and you will not be fooled by demonic spirits ushering in an age of false miracles.

Do not pursue manifestations. That is another way to be deceived. Rather pursue God and He will work in your life and church according to His word and we know that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ and not to make a show or gather people with itching ears.

Be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
God made moses bring not one but several attempts To make the pharoah bow down to him.
If the pharoah hadn't of chased after the slaves after he said take my people and go, perhaps the pharoah wouldnt have been killed, and Moses would have prayed to the father for the pharoah.

But putting this aside if you want to, we could try to work out the why God brings believers messages in dreams.

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,920
788
113
#8
Hi how are you today. 😊

I believe that some people need more belief and convincing that God is real more than other people do.

This is where God will will show people different signs that he is real. Through miracles through spirits ( misty) through light, through prophecy.

And then it doesn't stop there, the new converts who come to God still need convincing, and God will again show them something wonderful or something un-explained, that Somebody else would wonder why didn't that happen to me.

Well could it be it was because they didn't need as much convincing. 😊

Because they where not in as much grievance when they came to God. So God had to repeatedly show an individual signs and wonders.
your opening line is always true. the number 1 way to know God is real is become a born again Christian. when that occurs, God's Holy Spirit enters your life & remains. the H.S. does all the revealing or proving! when convicted, converted & transformed, the H.S. sometimes, immediately sends a sign. my guess is all christians have said to God: "speak to me more". God's timing is perfect, He knows what's best for you & He does what's best for you. wait with a cheerful trusting heart & smile about it! (Psalm 27:14)
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#10
God made moses bring not one but several attempts To make the pharoah bow down to him.
If the pharoah hadn't of chased after the slaves after he said take my people and go, perhaps the pharoah wouldnt have been killed, and Moses would have prayed to the father for the pharoah.

But putting this aside if you want to, we could try to work out the why God brings believers messages in dreams.

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
Who is the Lord Jesus Christ to you?

You are neither Samuel or Saul and we are not under the covenant with the Israelites in the OT

Who is the Lord Jesus Christ to you and why are you ignoring all that He has warned us of?
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#11
your opening line is always true. the number 1 way to know God is real is become a born again Christian. when that occurs, God's Holy Spirit enters your life & remains. the H.S. does all the revealing or proving! when convicted, converted & transformed, the H.S. sometimes, immediately sends a sign. my guess is all christians have said to God: "speak to me more". God's timing is perfect, He knows what's best for you & He does what's best for you. wait with a cheerful trusting heart & smile about it! (Psalm 27:14)
WRONG

The ONLY way to know God is by accepting His Son who died in your place. This is not the number 1 way to know God. It is the ONLY way to know God. The work of the Holy Spirit is not to send a sign. That is absolute nonsense and cannot be found in scripture.

Do you also choose to ignore the warnings in scripture about false prophets and lying signs and wonders?
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,920
788
113
#12
WRONG

The ONLY way to know God is by accepting His Son who died in your place. This is not the number 1 way to know God. It is the ONLY way to know God. The work of the Holy Spirit is not to send a sign. That is absolute nonsense and cannot be found in scripture.

Do you also choose to ignore the warnings in scripture about false prophets and lying signs and wonders?
yes, i assent accepting Jesus as personal savior who's death at the cross provided forgiveness of our sins, gives us new life & hope. i don't always explain everything in detail but we know that the 3 are in 1. sometimes i say God instead of Jesus. hold on, i'm with you Niki7. thanks.
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#13
Signs and wonders witnessed the truth of what’s in the New Testament

Signs and wonders accomplished by the Holy Ghost witness of the truth of the gospel it’s why the scriptures stood the test of time and why early Christian’s laid thier lives down they knew it was true because they lived it and saw it and experienced it
“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,

and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭

if the gospel hadn’t been preached with convincing proof it wouldn’t have won the hearts of people and stood the test of time
This is what Jesus said about a sign:

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees told Jesus, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

39 But he replied to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign. Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, 40 because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment and condemn the people living today, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. But look—something greater than Jonah is here! 42 The queen of the south will stand up and condemn the people living today because she came from so far away to hear the wisdom of Solomon. But look! Something greater than Solomon is here!” Matthew 12: 38-42


What is Jesus talking about here? Doesn't seem like signs and wonders are the truth of the gospel :unsure:

So now the question begs: WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#14
yes, i assent accepting Jesus as personal savior who's death at the cross provided forgiveness of our sins, gives us new life & hope. i don't always explain everything in detail but we know that the 3 are in 1. sometimes i say God instead of Jesus. hold on, i'm with you Niki7. thanks.
VERY important to say what we believe nowadays since so many false prophets and teachers are running around on the planet

Jesus is the ONLY way and that is straight from scripture

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate that you right away state where you stand with salvation :)
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,920
788
113
#15
VERY important to say what we believe nowadays since so many false prophets and teachers are running around on the planet

Jesus is the ONLY way and that is straight from scripture

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate that you right away state where you stand with salvation :)
1st John 4:4 coupled with Romans 12:2!
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#17
1st John 4:4 coupled with Romans 12:2!
4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

2 do not be conformed to this world,3 but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

I added v 3 there because it says why we should renew our minds

I was thinking of I John 4:4 so neat that you came up with it before I did!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,168
4,936
113
#18
This is what Jesus said about a sign:

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees told Jesus, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

39 But he replied to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign. Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah, 40 because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment and condemn the people living today, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. But look—something greater than Jonah is here! 42 The queen of the south will stand up and condemn the people living today because she came from so far away to hear the wisdom of Solomon. But look! Something greater than Solomon is here!” Matthew 12: 38-42


What is Jesus talking about here? Doesn't seem like signs and wonders are the truth of the gospel :unsure:

So now the question begs: WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?
Did you not read what this says ? Or do you just disagree with what it says ?

“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lol all I’m saying is songs and wonders witness that what they were preaching was all true.

Its alright with me if you don’t agree that’s neither here nor there my point was pretty basic and simple and is stated clearly there

“salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,”

a Jesus began preaching the gospel when he received the holy spirit

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he sent his apostles out to preach the gospel to the world

If you notice how this is when all emboldened e miracles and signs and wonders start being done by Jesus and then later his apostles ??

the reason those things were done is because God was witnessing with them the truth and power of the gospel

if someone tells you about Jesus rising from the dead is one thing , if that same person raises a dead man what they say has more power to be believed because of the evidence that’s what to e signs and wonders performed by Jesus and his apostles were it’s the proof of God proving of the word being preached in his name

Its one of the reasons Paul kept saying that the gospel was accompanied with power and evidence
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#19
Did you not read what this says ? Or do you just disagree with what it says ?

“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lol all I’m saying is songs and wonders witness that what they were preaching was all true.

Its alright with me if you don’t agree that’s neither here nor there my point was pretty basic and simple and is stated clearly there

“salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,”

a Jesus began preaching the gospel when he received the holy spirit

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he sent his apostles out to preach the gospel to the world

If you notice how this is when all emboldened e miracles and signs and wonders start being done by Jesus and then later his apostles ??

the reason those things were done is because God was witnessing with them the truth and power of the gospel

if someone tells you about Jesus rising from the dead is one thing , if that same person raises a dead man what they say has more power to be believed because of the evidence that’s what to e signs and wonders performed by Jesus and his apostles were it’s the proof of God proving of the word being preached in his name

Its one of the reasons Paul kept saying that the gospel was accompanied with power and evidence
I asked simple questions because I find what you state to be somewhat confusing.

The gospel is something specific. Can you state what that is exactly so as to help me understand ? I don't need copy/pastes. I am very familiar with scripture. I just wanted to understand what you see as the gospel
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
1,749
630
113
#20
If you notice how this is when all emboldened e miracles and signs and wonders start being done by Jesus and then later his apostles ??

the reason those things were done is because God was witnessing with them the truth and power of the gospel
I don't disagree with that. But are those things the gospel? shrugs

if the gospel hadn’t been preached with convincing proof it wouldn’t have won the hearts of people and stood the test of time
What is convincing proof today? Is proof needed to evidence faith?