Will Jesus "Second coming" present as a woman this time?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I do not think @ButterflyJones is denying the resurrection, nor do I see her stating the physical is inherently evil.

I think she is challenging that the hypostatic union is permanent.
Seems some want Jesus to be their lady and savior, not their Lord and Savior.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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i think "was" is incorrect. "is" is correct =]

it seems to me your view has Him deceiving the disciples in Luke 24? because He clearly convinces them that He Himself has risen in the flesh, explicitly not merely as spirit.
Jesus is God.
In the context of this issue "was" is appropriate.
No, Jesus didn't deceive anyone. Context is key.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Neither Adam nor Woman was cursed.
That is totally false. Since the curse came upon all creation, these two creatures were also cursed and here is the proof:

GENESIS 3: THE CONSEQUENCES OF DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD PLAINLY STATED
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


ROMANS 8: THE CURSE CAME UPON ALL CREATION AS "THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION"
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature [CREATION] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature
[CREATION] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature
[CREATION] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


Sin brought death to every creature. And death results in corruption, decay, degeneration and disintegration. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) also went into effect. "The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state".
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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That is totally false. Since the curse came upon all creation, these two creatures were also cursed and here is the proof:

GENESIS 3: THE CONSEQUENCES OF DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD PLAINLY STATED
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


ROMANS 8: THE CURSE CAME UPON ALL CREATION AS "THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION"
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature [CREATION] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature
[CREATION] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature
[CREATION] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


Sin brought death to every creature. And death results in corruption, decay, degeneration and disintegration. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) also went into effect. "The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state".
It says Satan is cursed, and it says the ground is cursed.
It does not say Adam is cursed.
It does not say Woman is cursed.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Matthew shows us that is a distinction without a difference.
Where?
where does Christ day His body will not rise?

I've been looking but I don't see it. if you know the verses you are basing this on please post them.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Jesus is God.
In the context of this issue "was" is appropriate.
No, Jesus didn't deceive anyone. Context is key.
since He is God He is always God.

Where is His fleshly body now?
poof?

If He only put on a disguise as a body to make the disciples think that He still had flesh and bone, and ate fish and honey to convince them He wasn't merely spirit, when actually He is only spirit and has no fleshly body, then that is the very definition of deceiving them.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Sin brought death to every creature. And death results in corruption, decay, degeneration and disintegration. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) also went into effect. "The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state".
Satan is not subject to physical death but to the lake of fire.

That is the curse of God, and it does not fall on either Adam nor his wife: they are redeemed
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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We're told flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven. The perishable does not inherit the imperishable.
Jesus said this.

That which insists his words are not true are wrong.
It is Paul, not Jesus who wrote the verse you are citing. (1 Cor 15) It simply doesn't apply in the way you want it to.
Jesus risen body is not perishable.


Jesus gave his flesh and blood once for all time as a ransom for our sin penalty had he not done so. If he takes those back, he forfeits the ransom.
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life – only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.’ ~ John 10

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. ~Rev 1
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Yes, i don't think this view is gnostic or sadduceean, but it exactly the same view in that it denies physical resurrection. in that sense it's identical to the watchtower cult, who also reach that Christ only resurrected in spirit, not flesh, hence only ascended in spirit.
and i do understand that it's also a common view among modern evangelicals - they share the same interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:50 with the watchtower cult.

i do not think it is a correct view.

i meant earlier to point out that it is the same fundamental error with those other groups, not that she counts herself among them. just that this is not a new idea.
I do not see where she denied the physical resurrection here on earth? I would need to go back and read.
I am pretty sure she is speaking about the nature and attributes of Jesus in heaven after His ascension.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Don't speak for me. You're wrong, and presumptuous.

Jesus gave his flesh and blood once for all time as a ransom for our sin penalty had he not done so.

If he takes those back, he forfeits the ransom.

Jesus was God. His glorified body was that power putting on that cloak of human so his disciples would know the Jesus they'd known had indeed returned. It's why he could and did so to show them his wounds.

Jesus being Holy Spirit returned to Heaven as Holy Spirit.

We're told flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven. The perishable does not inherit the imperishable.
Jesus said this.

That which insists his words are not true are wrong.
"Jesus being Holy Spirit returned to Heaven as Holy Spirit."


I understand this and I am inclined to agree based on scripture, however I cannot resolve what happened to the "physical" Jesus who was a unique human being, the flesh which housed God.

Where is that human part now if you state it was just a cloak?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom any more than your hair or inherit the kingdom, it must be born, or "carried," by the spirit. I mean, if there's no spirit, there's no life in it, even if there is flesh and blood. It's not so much the blood that sustains all life, although the life is connected to the blood. This reinforces my belief that there is no life apart from the spirit, mind, and body, and these three constitute a living soul. Paul said that he was with the Corinthians that he was 'with them in spirit' while he was alive, not that he's with them atm, after having died. However, Paul is 'present with the Lord,' currently, because the Lord is, was, and always will be Present and He is the only One that can "take it up again."
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Dec 20, 2017
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I do not see where she denied the physical resurrection here on earth? I would need to go back and read.
I am pretty sure she is speaking about the nature and attributes of Jesus in heaven after His ascension.
There is plenty of information regarding Jesus in heaven.


14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. ~ Heb 4

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: we do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being. ~ Heb 8

16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. ~Heb 2


13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash round his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. ~Rev 1

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
~ Dan 7:13

Again the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?’
62 ‘I am,’ said Jesus. ‘And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’
~ Mark 14
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Gender signifies roles and hierarchy. In God's hierarchy, man is always the leader (with ranks within that gender as well - the Trinity shows this with God the Father above the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit) and the female under the man's care and leadership.

Both are of equal value, but Satan likes to make the woman feel inferior and try to disrupt God's order.

So if Jesus comes back as a woman, He's no longer the leader. As much as SJWs love the idea of women having power over men, it just won't happen.

I've mentioned before, that even the Antichrist will be a man to show his position in the hierarchy and that he will refuse to allow women to have power over men ("the one desired by women" - Daniel 11:37).

-=<❤>=-

It's not like women are the only ones who have to submit to leadership - even the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit submit to God the Father harmoniously well. So do all the angels who stayed with God, like powerful Archangel Michael who did the Lord's bidding without question. All of these who must submit did their job so well, that their submission didn't look subservient or wimpy. They are all powerful and accomplished in their lower ranks from God the Father. And so it can be for us women as well. Just don't listen to Satan!

Okay, yet recent scholarship of the word "submission" in the Greek does not have a direct semantic meaning like the one you have mapped out.

As well, I never stated, nor agreed that Jesus would come back as a woman, there is no reason for a change in His sex.

Gender is a grammatical class.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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That is totally false. Since the curse came upon all creation, these two creatures were also cursed
The ground was cursed, not the living souls.
Adam and Woman and every animal. is a living soul, not just a physical body. while the body is subject to frustration the soul is not.

Adam is not a body of flesh, but a soul. we were not cursed; Adam was not cursed by God - and the ground is cursed for his sake, which is, for his benefit - so that through redemption of it by the purging of fire God may be glorified and Adam saved, resurrected through the resurrection of Christ who also became flesh, His own flesh not being subject decay owing to His having in Him no sin.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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The ground was cursed, not the living souls.
Adam and Woman and every animal. is a living soul, not just a physical body. while the body is subject to frustration the soul is not.

Adam is not a body of flesh, but a soul. we were not cursed; Adam was not cursed by God - and the ground is cursed for his sake, which is, for his benefit - so that through redemption of it by the purging of fire God may be glorified and Adam saved, resurrected through the resurrection of Christ who also became flesh, His own flesh not being subject decay owing to His having in Him no sin.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. Roman 8:20-22 .:)
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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"Jesus being Holy Spirit returned to Heaven as Holy Spirit."

I understand this and I am inclined to agree based on scripture,
Are Jesus and Holy Spirit of God not separate Persons in your view?