Works of the Law

I've gone back to post 235 to see how i differ to you..
We agree here, i just say faith without works is dead.
I'm implying that true believers will have works when it is needed or when their faith leads them to act or speak. Like you said below they believed and as a result they acted. It was faith that lead to action.

i believe the same that His obedience is a demonstration of the faith and relationship he had with God.
"Building the ark (WORKS) demonstrated his faith and saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning." Faith = works and resulted in saving Noah physically from the flood.

Faith that resulted in works again and as a result saving the first born child. "This signified their faith in God's warning and marked them out from the pagan Egyptians;'
nothing has contradicted what i have said yet. If i say that our works mark us out from the pagans of today. im saying the same as you.

i agree that obedience is not forced and legalism is the wrong type of obedience. you asked "how much do we need to obey"??Obedience is the fruit of true faith and it isn't about the amount but about the faith and relationship with Jesus. i don't draw a line in the sand anywhere for anyone else and let God judge them as saved or not. It is not our works that save us but our works reflect our relationship and faith in Jesus which does save us. We can say we have faith in Jesus all we want (words are cheap) but if we are acting like the unconverted and being rebellious to the Holy Spirits promptings (it isn't for me to judge) but i can understand why Jesus will say "I never knew you. depart from Me you that worketh iniquity".

So far i can't see anything i said that is wrong or disagrees with you. The bible teaches that a good tree produces good fruit and i teach the same. If we are filled with a love for Jesus and His Spirit is in us we will delight to do His will and Obey the Father in Heaven. our works reflect what is in the heart.

I agree. We can do next to zero when it comes to real holiness.

Real love is fairly absent, I think, from most Christian's lives.

Gluttony, social media, gaming, sport, and every other worldly practice, prevail throughout the Christian world.

We should notice the elephant in the room.

The cry in the wilderness these days is talking about an authentic holiness, a first century holiness.

Holiness is an event that cannot occur in the 21st century, the temptations are too extreme now.

Well Christians are supposed to be free from the penalty of death for their sin. That's what I read.

The devil is in the detail.

Your thought life is what will condemn you according to Jesus.

The physical act of murder or adultery can be resisted but calling or thinking someone is a fool. Is virtually impossible to achieve and that is the internal act of murder. Your thought life reflects your nature.

We fail continually at every level of sin. I think it is better to just admit your a rampant sinner and confess.

I don't think there has ever been a true, holy person, ever.

Some folk are just masters at disguising their sinful ways.

Gentiles were never required to be circumcised, so Gentiles cannot be under the law.

Not one letter of the law will pass unless all things have been fulfilled.

Circumcision must still be valid unless Jesus fulfilled all things.

continuing on ....
These bible verses they do not contradict each other. We can not boast in anything we do and our works will not earn us salvation. Faith in the Blood of Jesus is what saves us. Do you understand why i say faith and works are so closely connected and that our works reflect our faith. Like Abraham when he went to sacrificed his beloved son... They were works that reflected his faith.

If i promote the keeping of the law and the commandments it doesn't mean i'm promoting salvation by works.
It means i'm promoting the righteousness of God and therefore helping people to understand the sin that may be in there lives..
I doing the same as Jesus and Paul and many others before me which said "keep the commandments".

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I agree. So let us demonstrate our love for Jesus by obedience.

The only obedience that is accepted is by faith. Faith in Jesus. We can't truely obey without Christ in us and if we try to obey without Jesus we will only fail. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

i've alway said we obey because we are save not to be saved.
i say it is the fruit of salvation because the means is found in Jesus and what He did.

I'm fond of all bible verses including the ones above. The keeping of the commandments are not the means to obtain or maintain salvation but are a result of salvation.
i delight to keep the commandments because of what Jesus did for me.
So to conclude
I'm not sure why I'm speaking out of both sides and why i'm so wrong for promoting obedience to the commandments when it is a result of our understanding of salvation and our love for Jesus.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

knowing what sin cost costs.... i don't want to practice it.

Do you understand the difference between Justification and sanctification?

Dead in Christ requires no DNA test or proof of lineage. It’s available to all. And the result is the same: the Law has no bearing in the life of the dead.

The Truth is not that complicated. Many try to complicate it by trying to infuse it with their own sense of 'righteousness.'

Sorry, meant to get back to you and forgot.
Basically, they are using what Paul taught about Grace, to teach that we do not need to make Jesus the Lord of our lives in order to be saved.

If you can reconcile what Paul taught, with what someone else taught in the Bible, we can have an intelligent conversation. But if you do not have any witnesses, this would be fruitless.

Did you ever see yourself as a slave to sin? If you did, how did you recognize that you were?

Lets turn that question around, because it's not about me or you, it's about Jesus.
The bible is very clear, that when someone is born again, Jesus lives in them.
Do you agree?
Now lets look at your question from that viewpoint.

If you lie, steal, commit adultery, and murder someone, doesn't that make Jesus your accomplice in these sins against God and man?
If it doesn't, please explain how it doesn't.
Now for those who are biblically Born of God...not the "Billy Graham version".
They can not lie, steal, commit adultery, or murder.
Why?
Because God lives in them and they would be terrified to do these things.

Well that is the message from the foolish doctrines.
Why foolish?
People who follow these doctrines....
Claim Jesus is their Lord, but say they don't have to live in obedience to the one they call 'Lord.
Claim the have been born of God, are Sons of God....and continue to sin as the Sons of God.
Claim Jesus lives in them, not realizing, if this was true, Jesus would be an accomplice to their sin against God.
Sin, but Claim they are not slaves of sin, but are slaves of righteousness. If they were slaves of righteousness, how does their sin serve God? If they were free to serve God, why would they sin against God??

Well I could add many many more examples, to show how foolish these doctrines are...but I think you get the gist.

My question requires a YES or NO answer.

That a total switch from telling people that they are saved by the works of the Law. So which is it? And if you now do not believe that people are saved by the works of the Law then it is high time for you to apologize for this foolish thread.

If you consider someone a fool, that is a murderous thought pattern, your guilty enough to go downstairs.

The way you think about others and the way you treat other people, is the law and the prophets. That's what Jesus said.

How you treat others is what it's all about. Whether you see that in the law or not, that is what the law is saying.

Do not hurt other people, in thought, speech or behavior.

Which is agape love.

Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but not the very essence of our faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.

Obedience is how we demonstrate our love for Jesus. We should all agree on that.

Amen!

Amen!

Amen!

Amen! 1 John 2:3-4.

Love and gratitude for Jesus and what He did for us should be our motivation for obedience.

I liked what you said in this post, yet in other posts it does sound like you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Semantics?

I thought my answer was implied.
No, I do not lie, steal, commit adultery, or murder...in thought or in deed. This I can not do, because Jesus my Lord will not allow me to.

Yes, I know what (1 John 1) says, but if you can not use supporting scripture with it, its nothing more than your opinion.