Honest question....why don't churches teach the best way to avoid fornication is to get married?

so...... what's the common denominator in this story?..... just sayin.....

just pokin fun, brother....

LOL, you're a hopeless case dude. I'd like to say hang in there; but honestly, that would be giving you false hope. Just accept your lot in life and forget about finding a wife. It's never gonna happen.

Try another Church. Well there are over 30million in the world so countless do preach teach. 365 days in a year so unless we went every time and never heard in that one year.. but wait maybe it was going to be preached the next year?

I still have hope it will happen.

I think finding a good spouse is like winning the lottery.

The church I WAS going to, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, was very big on purity. I finally left the church for that reason.

That highlighted comment is often tough to know. Many people are sincere, but sincerely wrong, because their beliefs don't line up with Scriptures. There's also the posers who might say what they think you want to hear in order to get who they want. They aren't saved and you don't know that up front. I can give a couple examples of that from my past.
One extreme example was Maria who was demon possessed. I learned that in the middle of the day on campus between the Chemistry building and the main library. The demoniac in the gospels was a good description of what I saw that day. That started out scarry. I could have lost my life at the hands of her that day. She admitted to not being saved shortly after at the breakup. All of that was wasted time, emotions, work and money that would have been better used for God's purposes.

Related to that point is a passage from 2 Peter 2

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of....For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

This brings me to the Josh Harris book that I read. I agreed with his concepts of purity and establishing proper habits to maintain that. There was a lot of wisdom in the book for a guy just out of highschool...20.
It really wasn't something that you had to be saved to understand though. That was his biggest problem. He was trusting in his morality and repentance from sins to be saved.
Even though he went on to be hired by an evangelical mega church, that didn't make him a born again Christian. I wondered why a pastor goes to some liberal theological seminary after landing that ministry. Then he renounces what he claimed to believe about the Bible and the Lord it describes. I checked out his church's doctrines on salvation and it's a hard core works method.

"NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us."
Titus 3:5

Josh did not receive God's mercy, because he went about to establish his own righteousness. As a pastor, he was a false prophet leading many astray to a firey destiny. As a false prophet, he eventually became reprobate. He went down the slippery slope of too many pastors.
I've seen that happen more than once too.
I Timothy 4:1-3

have you always been lead by the purity doctrine ?.
Are you saying you've never kissed a woman ?.

Actually, your question should be rerestated to say they should teach that fornication IS marriage, since it constitutes the joining together of the flesh: that IS marriage in God's view and according to his word.

Apparently, that seems to be a persistent glitch nobody's been able to work out.

I argued with them over this. Told many of them the idea was stupid and why. Sadly many people and churches follow every wind of doctrine they hear. Very few search the scriptures to see if it's true. I hated the book "I kissed Dating Good Bye" by Josh Harris. Many at Calvary fell head over heels over his ideas. Bill Gothard came to speak at Calvary and all my friends praised him and his teachings. I heard what he has to say and told everyone he was wrong, and being legalistic. It came out later he was covering up for his brother in an affair. Bill Gothard had young teen girls in his office, rubbing their hair, shoulders and feet. He was just the opposite of what he was preaching.

I remember the 1990's.... Purity was a very big deal back then and I can understand why so many young Christians fell for that movement. I didn't read his book, but I did read Elizabeth Elliot's "Passion and Purity" at that time instead, which was about Jim and Elizabeth Elliot's courtship. But that was a successful marriage because they really did put God first both individually in their own lives long before they ever met each other and as a dating couple as well. Since you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", was there anything like that in the book?

In terms of Josh Harris being hired by a megachurch, I read an article as to why the megachurch was wrong to have hired him without much experience. Here's an excerpt that explained it very well:

❧

I can see your having problems there but your not answering any questions.

I can't help you or pray for if you don't.
I asked what your main
concern was
You haven' answered 5 questions I'll ask again

I'll ask them one more time
Just say yes or no in order and nothing else.

1 have you never got married because you've never found a woman who is prepared to wait until after the wedding befor kissing you ? Yes or no.

2 are you against sex befor marriage yes or no.

3 have you always been lead by the purity doctrine yes or no.
If so how long is it since you decided not to be. For this question you can answer yes or no followed by the amount of years

4 are you a virgin yes or no.

5 have you had any intamite relations with a woman yes or no.

Please answer like this

Yes
No
Yes 3 year
No
Yes

I'm sorry for your troubles and to ask theese question but your the one who had made this public this is not something I would normally ask anyone.

I love this book! She had so much wisdom. Granted, they weren't married long at all, (I think around 2 1/2 years? because of Jim's death) but yes they had a very godly relationship before they were married. I don't think you'd even call it a courtship or dating hardly, but they were in love 5 years and sought God a lot to make sure they were in His will. Such a good example.

1) no ( I would never marry any woman who said no kissing before marriage)
2) no (may not be the best thing, but I understand it, may have no impact on your marriage)
3) no (hated the purity doctrine)
4) no
5) yes

It's sin. No fornicators will inherit the kingdom of God.

It works for some, does not work for others.

so if you have sex outside of marriage, even just once or twice, you don't go to heaven? What if the two people got married later? No heaven? If someone is married 2 or more times (it's adultery) no heaven?

I think it's obvious what Paul is saying here. Look at the mercy shown to the one who sinned in the Corinthian church. But do we sin that grace may abound? God forbid. "Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." 1 John 3:6 b. Of course we as Christian will sin at times! God is rich in mercy; if we confess, He forgives. But we have to agree with God that sin is sin.

Thanks for the link and the info. I read their article.
The same verse you quoted came to my mind too, but after thinking about it I repented. That means that i changed my mind.
Why?
A novice would be a believer in Christ who is immature or inexperienced. Whoever hired him might have done so on his appealing personality, or perhaps his popularity he gained on the Christian media circuit. He might have had many reasons.
The issue I have is that, if he agreed with that church on the issue of salvation, then he was not a mere novice. Novice would only apply to unprepared, inexperienced believers. He wasn't even a babe in Christ, because Jesus never knew Josh. Matthew 7:21...

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Jesus didn't dispute over their appeal that they did good works, like preach in His Name. He never knew them to start with.

Even though they attribute his rejection of Christ and the fallout from that which they leave unmentioned, there are plenty of young people who start ministry early and don't reject Christ, then embrace the LGBPQ on the far end of the reprobate spectrum as Josh did. Romans 1.32 He's read Romans and knows the judgement of God.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

From what I heard in his documentary and read on his website, it sounds like the verse above to me.

Josh Harris' pastorate at the church would require him to agree that he believes and reaches the following doctrinal statements concerning salvation.

"[12] and enabling them to respond to the gospel in faith and repentance.[13] With a renewed heart and mind,[14] we receive Christ and rely fully on him for salvation, turning from our sinful, self-seeking way of life to love and follow Christ in joyful obedience.[15] Only those who respond to the gospel in this way will be saved...."
"Believers must persevere in faith and obedience in order to be saved."

This is a works salvation message cloaked with terms like " receive Christ."

They teach that the term repentance means "
turning from our sinful, self-seeking way of life to love and follow Christ in joyful obedience."

That's a twisting of the scriptures, making salvation out to be obedience to the law, love as a requirement, following as a requirement and obedience. Those are all works. The Bible's command to be saved is faith in Christ.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2

Gospel of Grace