Why does 1 Timothy 4:10 say that Jesus is the "savior of ALL people"?

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ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#21
people

pē′pəl
noun
  1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers. Often treated as a plural of person, especially in compounds.
  2. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the.
  3. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
 
May 8, 2023
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#22
I do not accuse you with this verse, just wanted to mention that sometimes, Paul can be hard to understand.

Blessings,
I don't think Paul is "hard" to understand. I think 1 Timothy 4:10 (esv) is plain and simple.
"For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

Albert Barnes demonstrated in the piece that you shared earlier in the thread that Paul is a heretic.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,351
29,595
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#23
Isn't this another instance where "all" actually means "some"? Is God
being "good" to the people that he tortures day and night for eternity?
Yeah, some do believe that is an expression of God's justice. I do not.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,064
189
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#24
His salvation is available to all people but only those who believe and obey will be actually saved.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


belief + baptism = salvation
 
May 8, 2023
68
27
8
#25
people

pē′pəl
noun
  1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers. Often treated as a plural of person, especially in compounds.
  2. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the.
  3. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
So by this we can glean that Jesus didn't actually mean "all" people just "some" people.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,351
29,595
113
#27
You don't believe that God tortures people every minute of every day forever and ever?
No. I believe what Scripture attests to from beginning to end: the
wages of sin is death. The wicked will perish. They are destroyed.



Our God is a Consuming Fire
:)
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
974
596
93
#28
So by this we can glean that Jesus didn't actually mean "all" people just "some" people.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”
before we go further, Do you believe Jesus is the way to eternal life? I think you do. Do you follow Jesus teachings? I hope you do, In that case you are saved. People who reject Jesus knowingly will not be.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#33
No one will be tortured day and night for all eternity.
That is a silly statement since God is not in the torture business. But He is in the justice business.
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
192
43
#38
1 Timothy 4:10
To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living
God, who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.
Whatever version you are using, I suggest a good translation instead of yours. Your "everyone" is all people in the translation ESV. This one betrays the "translator's" own meaning, that is, universalism that says all people will be saved.

However, Paul immediately qualifies his statement by saying that Jesus is the Savior "especially of those who believe." For example, the famous verse John 3:16 seems to imply that God will save all people (the world), but the following verses clarify that only believers are saved. The usual interpretation is correct in saying that Jesus' death and resurrection are capable of saving everyone but only effective for true believers.
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
192
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#39
Paul may be a chauvinist but not a heretic.
He was neither, because he lifted women up to a high status; "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church," whereas women had the status of slaves or property before Paul. In other words, husbands are to serve their wives' every need, and then God will make them servant-leaders in their marriages. He is dealing with roles, not status before God, which Moses also depicted in Genesis 2 after he clearly made male and female equal in status in chapter one.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#40
Well, if Jesus doesn't save ALL people then he's NOT the savior of ALL people and that makes Paul a heretic.
You are trying to deliberately misrepresent what is written. Your question was already answered. And then to add insult to injury by suggesting that Paul was a heretic? What next? And no Paul was not a chauvinist either. Christians have now taken to insulting the apostles, which shows that we are in the Great Apostasy. Only those who obey the Gospel are saved, and Universalism is a lie.