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studentoftheword

studentoftheword

Well-known member
#41
Nov 12, 2021
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#41
hristianpost.com/news/over-half-of-us-christians-believe-good-works-will-get-them-into-heaven-study.html
Over half of US Christians believe good works will get them into Heaven: study

I say
So it seems many are preaching Good works instead of a personal Relationship with Jesus ------you can't mix the law and Grace -----
 
R

RaceRunner

Well-known member
#42
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
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#42
All of you who are choosing to believe heresy, continue in heresy and find out if Jesus Christ allows you into heaven.
 
M

montana123

Well-known member
#43
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
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#43
I do not believe works will save us if we do something apart from love led by the Spirit such as Catholics that do many things that God does not require us to do believing they are pleasing God.

Love is the fulfilling of the law so all we have to do is works of love by the Spirit.

Catholics have so many things they do as if it is part of the Christian religion that it is ridiculous.

When the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their pagan, and occult ways, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

That is why they do what they do because their foundation is pagan, and the occult.

That is how some churches have a seriously flawed belief is because they have a belief that is not part of the Bible and it becomes their foundation for interpreting scriptures.

Like Joseph Smith had a belief that was not part of the Bible and it became his foundation for interpreting scriptures which is the Mormon church.

Scientology, Christian Science, new age movement, and others the same thing.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#44
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
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#44
bluto said:
I didn't make anything up buster. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, vs9, NOT as a result of , that no one should boast." So, did you notice we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. Water baptism is considered a work so let's test you to see if you know what your talking about.

In the book of James he says at James 2:26, "For just as the body, without the spirit is dead, SO ALSO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD." Can you reconcile this apparent contradiction? I also suggest you read the following site. https://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-by-works.html It explains why the majority view of Christianity believe in a works based salvation.

Here is what the Mormons believe regarding water baptism. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/baptism?lang=eng Here's another group (The Oneness Pentecostals) that regard water baptism as necessary for salvation and in speaking in tongues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism#:~:text=Oneness churches, while exhibiting variations,; Acts 19:6). Btw seeker47, do you know why they are called "Oneness Pentecostals?) It's time for you to do your own homework and I don't appreciate being called a liar. I've been a Christian for 61 years now and I think I know a little bit about what I'm talking about.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
I owe Seeker47 an apology because I inserted his name in this post and I mixed him up with Lamar. In other words, it is Lamar that I'm addressing, not Seeker47. So Lamar, where are you hiding? As you can see some of us provided proof of what some of the churches and the cults teach which is salvation by works.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#45
May 21, 2023
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#45
posthuman said:
LDS soteriology:

"As used in Romans 10:9–10, the words “saved” and “salvation” signify a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Through this covenant relationship, followers of Christ are assured salvation from the eternal consequences of sin if they are obedient."


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/salvation?lang=eng&id=p1#p1
Click to expand...
Using your logic the Hebrews were saved by their "works" since they obeyed the command to coat their door posts with blood.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#46
May 21, 2023
949
142
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#46
posthuman said:
oneness pentecostal soteriology:

"We believe that salvation is based solely on the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ and is completely an undeserved gift of God. The Biblical experience of salvation consists of: faith, repentance, baptism in water by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance."

https://www.onenesspentecostal.com/state.htm
Click to expand...
Using your line of reasoning the Hebrews earned their healing by looking upon the brass serpent in the desert.

The very text you present states: ""We believe that salvation is based solely on the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ and is completely an undeserved gift of God. "

This group does not consider these acts of obedience as earning salvation. How could you miss this?

It seems you see "works salvation" under every rock but your own.

Are you this quick to label your own acts of obedience as acts of merit? Be honest.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#47
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#47
Lamar said:
Using your logic the Hebrews were saved by their "works" since they obeyed the command to coat their door posts with blood.
Click to expand...
actually, the old testament was about works. the LAW equals SIN and you worked to keep from sinning + would also be required more work to offer sacrifice.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#48
May 21, 2023
949
142
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#48
bluto said:
I owe Seeker47 an apology because I inserted his name in this post and I mixed him up with Lamar. In other words, it is Lamar that I'm addressing, not Seeker47. So Lamar, where are you hiding? As you can see some of us provided proof of what some of the churches and the cults teach which is salvation by works.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
Buster here.

NONE of the "evidence" presented proves that these groups believe that they are earning salvation by obeying these commands.

Acts of obedience are not acts of merit.

You and others on this issue are stuck in a echo chamber and cannot see the forest for the trees.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#49
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#49
Lamar said:
Using your logic the Hebrews were saved by their "works" since they obeyed the command to coat their door posts with blood.
Click to expand...
Paul seems to agree that through the Law, salvation is by works, not faith:


Galatians 3:10-14
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, [ "Cursed] [is] [ everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."] But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God [is] evident, for [ "the just shall live by faith."] Yet the law is not of faith, but [ "the man who does them shall live by them."] Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, [ "Cursed] [is] [ everyone who hangs on a tree"]), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

however works never result in salvation, as is written above in the scripture.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#50
Mar 1, 2022
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#50
Lamar said:
Using your logic the Hebrews were saved by their "works" since they obeyed the command to coat their door posts with blood.
Click to expand...
They were saved because they believed the word from God. Because they believed, they acted.
This was James point. Faith without requisite action isn't really faith.
What we believe always controls what we do.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#51
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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#51
Lamar said:
Using your line of reasoning the Hebrews earned their healing by looking upon the brass serpent in the desert.

The very text you present states: ""We believe that salvation is based solely on the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ and is completely an undeserved gift of God. "

This group does not consider these acts of obedience as earning salvation. How could you miss this?

It seems you see "works salvation" under every rock but your own.

Are you this quick to label your own acts of obedience as acts of merit? Be honest.
Click to expand...
this group considers a person unsaved unless they take part in a very particular baptismal rite and speak in tongues.

so, practically speaking, despite their statement, they do not consider salvation to by grace through faith alone, but contingent on a sacrament and a demonstration of glossolalia.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#52
May 21, 2023
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#52
The_Watchers_2017 said:
actually, the old testament was about works. the LAW equals SIN and you worked to keep from sinning + would also be required more work to offer sacrifice.
Click to expand...
The Old Testament does not teach that the Jews were earning their remission of sins by obeying works of the LAW.

This is a common misunderstanding of the Old Testament.

Their act of coating the door posts was not the means of their protection but the point or moment of their protection.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#53
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#53
Lamar said:
The Old Testament does not teach that the Jews were earning their remission of sins by obeying works of the LAW.

This is a common misunderstanding of the Old Testament.

Their act of coating the door posts was not the means of their protection but the point or moment of their protection.
Click to expand...
THIS IS WHAT I WROTE:
actually, the old testament was about works. the LAW equals SIN and you worked to keep from sinning + would also be required more work to offer sacrifice.

where is any mention of earning Remission of Sins at?
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#56
May 21, 2023
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#56
posthuman said:
this group considers a person unsaved unless they take part in a very particular baptismal rite and speak in tongues.

so, practically speaking, despite their statement, they do not consider salvation to by grace through faith alone, but contingent on a sacrament and a demonstration of glossolalia.
Click to expand...
"this group considers a person unsaved unless they take part in a very particular baptismal rite and speak in tongues."

They may very well believe this but that is not the issue here. The issue is simply do they believe they are earning salvation by fulfilling these commands?

"so, practically speaking, despite their statement, they do not consider salvation to by grace through faith alone, but contingent on a sacrament and a demonstration of glossolalia."

If you believe your above comment please show evidence of it, because what you presented as "proof" is stating no such thing.

As a matter of fact, it proves the opposite.
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#57
May 31, 2023
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#57
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

- Revelation 19:6-8 (KJV)

selah
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#58
May 21, 2023
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#58
The_Watchers_2017 said:
THIS IS WHAT I WROTE:
actually, the old testament was about works. the LAW equals SIN and you worked to keep from sinning + would also be required more work to offer sacrifice.

where is any mention of earning Remission of Sins at?
Click to expand...
There is none...what is your point?
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#59
Jun 20, 2022
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#59
Lamar said:
There is none...what is your point?
Click to expand...
you responded to my post with it, and I wondered if you were claiming that's what i meant, or that you just added your thoughts to a post you quoted, that happened to be me?
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#60
May 21, 2023
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#60
Nehemiah6 said:
One could call water baptism a work, and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, baptismal regeneration is what saves a person.

Article 1
THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM
1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5
Click to expand...
Where in what you presented states that they are earning salvation by fulfilling these commands?

I await your answer.

Acts of obedience are not acts of merit. This is not a hard concept to grasp.
 
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