"I ask then why do people say Israel must go through the Tribulation?" Jeremiah 30.6. paraphrased.

~ Just because someone wrote the words 'But the more commonly received opinion is' does not mean that it was actually true at the time it was written?

If you would answer, the reasoning would become apparent. Perhaps it already has and that explains your response.

What I find amazing is that views contrary to futurism have zero hope for the world. Christ does not return to enforce peace on the earth. Israel is not redeemed. The Church is not raptured. We are all left hanging in a world that is obviously hurling into chaos and catastrophe.

When the world follows the New Age Christ and takes his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will then turn to Israel and send them 2 witnesses who will preach to them for the last three and one half years and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth.

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in and so all Israel shall be saved.

You just got schooled by TDW. But will you accept it and make the necessary corrections to your addled, ludicrous and absurd eschatological views?

Did you even read Revelation 11? And then read Revelation 12? And then see 42 months in both chapters? And then realize that that was all about a future temple in John's vision? It is about the reign of the Antichrist. And there was no reign of the Antichrist at that time, or any time since then. That is a future event and even Christ called it a future event. He prophesied of the destruction of the temple which was standing in His presence, then spoke about the Abomination of Desolation which would stand in a future temple in Jerusalem. So how do people get such BIZARRE and unbiblical ideas?

It matters not - Iraneus is not 'credible' in my opinion.

You cannot properly answer the question based [strictly] on the information given in the statement - which states that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills - it says nothing about God owning any hills.

(A lesson in 'logic'.)

Of course, we know that God owns everything - so, in reality, He owns all of the hills everywhere. (And, all of the cattle too!)

Psalms 50:

10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

People like to argue about what the word [translated] 'thousand' means here - whether it is 'exactly 1000' or 'some large indefinite number'.

The word [itself] means 'exactly 1000'. And, it always does - without exception. Where it may become nonliteral, if at all, is strictly a matter of context - because, it is the [understanding of the] usage of language that "renders" something to be nonliteral in a context where such may be understood.

You have to look at the words themselves, the sentence structure grammar, the usage of language (based on culture, era, etc.), and the context of the verse/passage - the collective combination of which I like to call the 'grammar of the language'. In other words, it is not just about words and sentence structure grammar - other things also affect the comprehensive meaning.

And, when considering the comprehensive meaning of something in scripture, you also have to look at both the original and translated languages. For example, when reading the KJV, you have to consider the use of language of the original language (e.g. - Greek, Hebrew) AND the use of language of the 'Middle English' language of the KJV also.

Now - I am not saying that no one can get anything out of the Bible without doing extensive study into the original language(s), etc. - in most cases/verses/passages (in/of a good translation), the translation itself takes care of most of that due to the knowlege, understanding, and diligence of the translators who translated it. What I am saying is - if you are going to take an in-depth look at some word or phrase in scripture - sometimes, you have to look at several things together to obtain the proper meaning.

And, these are the types of mistakes that are very often made that result in erroneous interpretations of scripture...

I believe the most common mistake that is made is when someone assumes scripture says something that it does not actually say.

It is very easy to do - you have to be very careful...

So - please be very careful...

When are you going to let TDW "school" you - in how to respond to others with humility and brotherly love instead of the proud arrogant look-down-your-nose-at-them attitude that you have that just seems to refuse to go away...???

"Just wondering..."

You seem to esteem him highly as a teacher of the Word.

He sets a pretty good example in my opinion (in the context of the above remark) - why don't you follow it?

Key word being "YEARS [etē ]".

What I mean is, that every place in Scripture where the word "YEARS" is used along with whatever number ("______ years"), it always means THAT MANY "years" (the writer wants the reader to picture in their minds / think "______ YEARS" [THAT MANY *years*]).






[In this way, the "cattle" verse, Psalm 50:10, is not appropriately comparable]

The disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time and He said the Father will do it in His own time.

God said that He will gather the whole house of Israel back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward and He will never hide His face from them again.

Which means Israel will always be in the truth from that point forward so this has to be a future prophesy.

God is going to give world their way for 7 years to rebel against the truth, and when they do then He will end sin on Earth.

The New Age Christ/antichrist shall establish peace in the Middle East and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go back to the land of Israel for the Gentile nations will see that it happens, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land.

The world will be split in to 10 sections, and for the first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world.

When the world follows the New Age Christ and takes his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world and God will then turn to Israel and send them 2 witnesses who will preach to them for the last three and one half years and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth.

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in and so all Israel shall be saved.

Some people think the Church replaces Israel but Israel is the Church.

From Abraham to David to Jesus to the millennial reign of Christ to the New Jerusalem it is Israel all the way.

Which the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem.

That is why a Gentile when saved becomes a Jew inward, and is part of the commonwealth of Israel.

The Gentile becomes part of the nation of Israel because it is Israel all the way.

Paul said God has not cast off His people that He once foreknew.

God said if the ordinances in heaven are still in operation the sun, moon, and stars, then His covenant is still with Israel, and they shall never cease to be a nation.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

During the first three and one half years Israel as a nation is protected from physical attack.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

During the last three and one half years Israel as a nation is protected from physical attack.

But the Jews that turn to Jesus will be persecuted along with the Gentiles that are with Jesus, but Israel as a nation is protected for the 7 years period until the battle of Armageddon which is part of the wrath of God on the world which then they will attack Israel and Jesus will save them.

Yes. There is no literal 1000 year reign. The church age will go on for a long time. Revelation 7:9 says heaven will be populated by a number of inhabitants that no man can number.
Just out of curiosity, how big do you figure a number that no man can number will be?

Jeremiah 30:

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

This verse is the only place this phrase is found in the Bible - and, it is referring specifically to Armageddon.

It is not [general/generic] 'tribulation'.

It is not [the] 'Great Tribulation'.

It is the specific 'event' referred to in all of the verses in the 'Armageddon' column of the chart/table on this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

Armageddon occurs after the Second Coming of Christ (soon after the time of His appearance).

God does not "deal with Israel" until Armageddon. (And, of course, afterward.)

The 'Dry Bones' prophecy will be fulfilled by Christ after His Second Coming. (It was not fulfilled in 1948 or 1967.)

Israel-as-a-nation still has a part to play during the Millennium. And, in no way is this in conflict with the 'Church' (the body of Christ) or the New Covenant.

Do not conflate what the verse above is saying and the salvation of the souls of the Jews - they are two completely separate things.

What happens if anyone person of the scattered church of the house of Isreal don't make it back to Isreal


The Message



Mark 13:14-23


Run for the Hills
14-18 “But be ready to run for it when you see the monster of desecration set up where it should never be. You who can read, make sure you understand what I’m talking about. If you’re living in Judea at the time, run for the hills; if you’re working in the yard, don’t go back to the house to get anything; if you’re out in the field, don’t go back to get your coat. Pregnant and nursing mothers will have it especially hard. Hope and pray this won’t happen in the middle of winter.

I find it odd that 1000 to some is positively literal when numbers are often used symbolically while direct wording like shortly and at hand are seen as symbolic.

Actually, it doesn't mean 1000 in context. It is a large number but it actually represents all.

It can't mean "all time" when referencing Satan being bound for 1,000 years ((Rev. 20:3)), because he is loosed again when the thousand years are finished ((Rev 20:7)).

They will be gathered from the four winds of heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the gathering of the Jews when He spoke of two in one bed and one will be taken and one left, two working in the mill and one will be taken and one left. "where Lord? where the carcase is there the eagles will gather"

This is a supernatural gathering just like the Rapture but not to meet the Lord in the clouds but to Israel from whence they will reign.

This run for the hills warning relates only to Jerusalem where the desecration takes place.

well to be fair "shortly" is an indefinite term, but for example 143 is a definite quantity.
so you can see why a person might be more inclined to give interpretive latitude to a word like "soon" than to one like "70“