The Trinity.

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. Matt16:13-17



An alternative conversation:

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus shook his head and sighed. ‘’No Peter, that is not enough to believe. You have to know I am part of an equal trinity and have been for infinitum. The Father, Holy Spirit and I are all equally God and always have been. In the ontological sense of Trinity I have always been equal to the Father, but in the economic sense I am subject to him. This you must know and believe.’’

Peter shakes his head and walks away, he doesn’t understand.

“And they prayed and said, ‘You, Lord (cf. 1:6-7, 1:21), who know the hearts of all, show clearly which one of these two you have chosen (cf. 1:1-2, 9:15) to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place’” (Acts 1:24–25)

“For this is contained in Scripture:

‘Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone,
And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.’

This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,

‘The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the very corner stone,’

and,

‘A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense’”

μήποτε εἴπητε σκληρόν πᾶν γάρ ὃ ἐὰν εἴπῃ ὁ λαὸς οὗτος σκληρόν ἐστιν τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῆτε οὐδὲ μὴ ταραχθῆτε κύριον αὐτὸν ἁγιάσατε καὶ αὐτὸς ἔσται σου φόβος καὶ ἐὰν ἐπ᾽ αὐτῷ πεποιθὼς ᾖς ἔσται σοι εἰς ἁγίασμα καὶ οὐχ ὡς λίθου προσκόμματι συναντήσεσθε αὐτῷ οὐδὲ ὡς πέτρας πτώματι ὁ δὲ οἶκος Ιακωβ ἐν παγίδι καὶ ἐν κοιλάσματι ἐγκαθήμενοι ἐν Ιερουσαλημ

Never say, ‘hard,’ for whatever this people says is hard, but do not fear what it fears, or be in dread; honor the Lord himself as holy. And if you trust in Him, He will become your sanctuary, and you will not encounter Him as a stumbling caused by a stone nor as a fall caused by a rock, but the house(s) of Jacob is in a trap, and those who sit in Jerusalem are in a pit.

You mean the same Peter, as the Peter in Acts? And the same Peter who wrote 1 Peter?

In Acts 1:1-7, we are told of an encounter with the post-resurrected Christ. In 1:1-2, the narrator identifies Christ as the one who had “chosen” (or appointed) the apostles to their position. In 1:6-7, that same Christ is referred to as “Lord.” And in 1:21, the subject is (again) referred to as “Lord Jesus.” Given that Christ has, by this time in the narrative, been identified as the one by whom the apostles received their position (1:1-2), and has twice thus been referred to as “Lord”; when we then come to the prayer lead by the Apostle Peter (1:24-25), there is no question to whom is being prayed to:



In more than just one occasion (exclusive to the Book of Acts) is Christ the recipient of prayer: Acts 7:59-60, 9:10-21, 22:16.

Just as we heard in the earlier account (1:1-2, 1:24-25), Christ is said to have (Acts 9:15) chosen Paul as “my chosen instrument.”

In 9:11, the term “praying” (προσεύχεται) is left unqualified. The text doesn’t identify who the object of Paul’s prayer was, per se. Though, we can infer from the text who the recipient of that prayer was (notice the object v. recipient contrast). Paul may have directed his prayers to “the Father,” though it is also possible that he may have even been praying to “the Christ,” which he had encountered just moments before (9:1-9). Though, I do not find it all too likely that Paul would have addressed God as “the Father” in his prayer. It is likely that Paul may have neither invoked “the Father” or “the Christ,” but may have (in his moment of distress) invoked “the God of Israel” as the object of his prayer, or even perhaps invoked the Divine Name (or some substitutionary form), not anticipating that it was the risen Lord that was “hearing” the prayer. What is rather telling, is that in the very moment of Ananias’ vision, Christ says to Ananias (of Paul), “behold, he is praying (προσεύχεται),” using the Present Middle Indicative. For Christ to have known that Paul was (in that very moment) praying, and in an instance He (Christ) had also appeared to Ananias in a vision, strongly suggests that the risen Christ could hear Paul’s cry and plea for help in his moment of distress, whether that was Paul’s intended object or not.

And in 9:13-14, Ananias expresses great fear of Paul, exclaiming, “this man, how much harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem, and here he has authority from the chief priests to tie up all who call upon your name!”

The expression, “all who call upon your name” is an allusion back to Acts 2:21 (“all who call upon the name of the Lord”), which is rooted in Joel 2:32 (cf. Acts 22:16). The OT is saturated with this sort of language, particularly in cultic/religious contexts, when prayer is offered up to none other than the God of Israel (cf. Gen. 4:26, Gen. 12:8, Gen. 13:4, Gen. 16:13, Gen. 21:33, Gen. 26:25, Ex. 34:5, 1Ki 18:24, 2Ki 5:11, Zep 3:9, Ps. 116:13, Ps. 116:17, etc). Given these intertextual connections, it seems out of place to suggest that Peter could not (or did not) invoke the Lord Jesus Christ as the direct object and recipient of his prayer in Acts 1:24-25.

In 1 Peter, Christ is “Lord” when alluding to OT texts where the Divine Name is present. In 1 Peter 2:3, there is a clear allusion to Ps. 34:8 (“if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good”). It is not coincidental that the author then goes onto allude to Ps. 34 later in his epistle (1 Peter 3:10-12). That Jesus is the referent in 1 Peter 2:3 is brought out by what is said in the following verse, “to whom you are drawing near, a living stone rejected by men but chosen and precious in the sight of God” (1 Peter 2:4, Lexham).

Following this, our author then goes on to cite a litany of intertextually related “stone” texts, vv. 6-8 (Lexham):



The first text (1 Peter 2:6) cited is a reference to Is. 28:16, “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.” The second text (1 Peter 2:7) cited is a reference to Ps. 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone.” The third text (1 Peter 2:8) cited is a reference to Is. 8:14, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”

What may go unnoticed is that this final text which Peter cites (Is. 8:12-14 LXX), is with reference to “the Lord of hosts” as the “stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,”



Not only does Isaiah 8 identify the “Lord” as the “rock of offense,” but Peter even describes “Christ the Lord” following the very same verbal pattern that Isaiah 8 uses of YHWH when he writes,

1Peter 3:14-15
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτῶν μὴ φοβηθῆτε μηδὲ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what they fear, or be in dread, but honor Christ the Lord as holy)

Isaiah 8:12-13 LXX
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῆτε οὐδὲ μὴ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον αὐτὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what it fears, or be in dread; honor the Lord himself as holy)

Same Peter, right?

You mean the same Peter, as the Peter in Acts? And the same Peter who wrote 1 Peter?

In Acts 1:1-7, we are told of an encounter with the post-resurrected Christ. In 1:1-2, the narrator identifies Christ as the one who had “chosen” (or appointed) the apostles to their position. In 1:6-7, that same Christ is referred to as “Lord.” And in 1:21, the subject is (again) referred to as “Lord Jesus.” Given that Christ has, by this time in the narrative, been identified as the one by whom the apostles received their position (1:1-2), and has twice thus been referred to as “Lord”; when we then come to the prayer lead by the Apostle Peter (1:24-25), there is no question to whom is being prayed to:



In more than just one occasion (exclusive to the Book of Acts) is Christ the recipient of prayer: Acts 7:59-60, 9:10-21, 22:16.

Just as we heard in the earlier account (1:1-2, 1:24-25), Christ is said to have (Acts 9:15) chosen Paul as “my chosen instrument.”

In 9:11, the term “praying” (προσεύχεται) is left unqualified. The text doesn’t identify who the object of Paul’s prayer was, per se. Though, we can infer from the text who the recipient of that prayer was (notice the object v. recipient contrast). Paul may have directed his prayers to “the Father,” though it is also possible that he may have even been praying to “the Christ,” which he had encountered just moments before (9:1-9). Though, I do not find it all too likely that Paul would have addressed God as “the Father” in his prayer. It is likely that Paul may have neither invoked “the Father” or “the Christ,” but may have (in his moment of distress) invoked “the God of Israel” as the object of his prayer, or even perhaps invoked the Divine Name (or some substitutionary form), not anticipating that it was the risen Lord that was “hearing” the prayer. What is rather telling, is that in the very moment of Ananias’ vision, Christ says to Ananias (of Paul), “behold, he is praying (προσεύχεται),” using the Present Middle Indicative. For Christ to have known that Paul was (in that very moment) praying, and in an instance He (Christ) had also appeared to Ananias in a vision, strongly suggests that the risen Christ could hear Paul’s cry and plea for help in his moment of distress, whether that was Paul’s intended object or not.

And in 9:13-14, Ananias expresses great fear of Paul, exclaiming, “this man, how much harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem, and here he has authority from the chief priests to tie up all who call upon your name!”

The expression, “all who call upon your name” is an allusion back to Acts 2:21 (“all who call upon the name of the Lord”), which is rooted in Joel 2:32 (cf. Acts 22:16). The OT is saturated with this sort of language, particularly in cultic/religious contexts, when prayer is offered up to none other than the God of Israel (cf. Gen. 4:26, Gen. 12:8, Gen. 13:4, Gen. 16:13, Gen. 21:33, Gen. 26:25, Ex. 34:5, 1Ki 18:24, 2Ki 5:11, Zep 3:9, Ps. 116:13, Ps. 116:17, etc). Given these intertextual connections, it seems out of place to suggest that Peter could not (or did not) invoke the Lord Jesus Christ as the direct object and recipient of his prayer in Acts 1:24-25.

In 1 Peter, Christ is “Lord” when alluding to OT texts where the Divine Name is present. In 1 Peter 2:3, there is a clear allusion to Ps. 34:8 (“if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good”). It is not coincidental that the author then goes onto allude to Ps. 34 later in his epistle (1 Peter 3:10-12). That Jesus is the referent in 1 Peter 2:3 is brought out by what is said in the following verse, “to whom you are drawing near, a living stone rejected by men but chosen and precious in the sight of God” (1 Peter 2:4, Lexham).

Following this, our author then goes on to cite a litany of intertextually related “stone” texts, vv. 6-8 (Lexham):



The first text (1 Peter 2:6) cited is a reference to Is. 28:16, “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.” The second text (1 Peter 2:7) cited is a reference to Ps. 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone.” The third text (1 Peter 2:8) cited is a reference to Is. 8:14, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”

What may go unnoticed is that this final text which Peter cites (Is. 8:12-14 LXX), is with reference to “the Lord of hosts” as the “stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,”



Not only does Isaiah 8 identify the “Lord” as the “rock of offense,” but Peter even describes “Christ the Lord” following the very same verbal pattern that Isaiah 8 uses of YHWH when he writes,

1Peter 3:14-15
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτῶν μὴ φοβηθῆτε μηδὲ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what they fear, or be in dread, but honor Christ the Lord as holy)

Isaiah 8:12-13 LXX
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῆτε οὐδὲ μὴ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον αὐτὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what it fears, or be in dread; honor the Lord himself as holy)

Same Peter, right?

Personally I've never read the greek, or relied on any concordance to learn. I'm a simple chap, I just get down on my knees and ask God, through the Holy Spirit to enlighten me as I read the bible.

*Peter shakes his head and walks away*

To tell you the truth, in all my years on these kinds of websites, I only came accross one person who studied the greek and understood Paul's message. I think a well known evangelist summed it up well:
''Some like to read their bibles in or through the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, I like to read mine through the Holy Spirit''

So with both eyes closed. Got it.

Well if you think relying on the Holy Spirit to learn spiritual truth is going forward with both eyes closed, you are entitled to your opinion, though I think it is rather sad

What I think is rather sad is that you use Peter (who filled with the Holy Spirit, wrote 1 Peter) in a depiction of "walking away in shame" as if he didn't believe the very thing you are criticizing. That is what is truly "shameful," and rather "sad." And that is what I mean by "both eyes closed."

You claim to "see," yet you have both eyes closed.

You mean the same Peter, as the Peter in Acts? And the same Peter who wrote 1 Peter?

In Acts 1:1-7, we are told of an encounter with the post-resurrected Christ. In 1:1-2, the narrator identifies Christ as the one who had “chosen” (or appointed) the apostles to their position. In 1:6-7, that same Christ is referred to as “Lord.” And in 1:21, the subject is (again) referred to as “Lord Jesus.” Given that Christ has, by this time in the narrative, been identified as the one by whom the apostles received their position (1:1-2), and has twice thus been referred to as “Lord”; when we then come to the prayer lead by the Apostle Peter (1:24-25), there is no question to whom is being prayed to:



In more than just one occasion (exclusive to the Book of Acts) is Christ the recipient of prayer: Acts 7:59-60, 9:10-21, 22:16.

Just as we heard in the earlier account (1:1-2, 1:24-25), Christ is said to have (Acts 9:15) chosen Paul as “my chosen instrument.”

In 9:11, the term “praying” (προσεύχεται) is left unqualified. The text doesn’t identify who the object of Paul’s prayer was, per se. Though, we can infer from the text who the recipient of that prayer was (notice the object v. recipient contrast). Paul may have directed his prayers to “the Father,” though it is also possible that he may have even been praying to “the Christ,” which he had encountered just moments before (9:1-9). Though, I do not find it all too likely that Paul would have addressed God as “the Father” in his prayer. It is likely that Paul may have neither invoked “the Father” or “the Christ,” but may have (in his moment of distress) invoked “the God of Israel” as the object of his prayer, or even perhaps invoked the Divine Name (or some substitutionary form), not anticipating that it was the risen Lord that was “hearing” the prayer. What is rather telling, is that in the very moment of Ananias’ vision, Christ says to Ananias (of Paul), “behold, he is praying (προσεύχεται),” using the Present Middle Indicative. For Christ to have known that Paul was (in that very moment) praying, and in an instance He (Christ) had also appeared to Ananias in a vision, strongly suggests that the risen Christ could hear Paul’s cry and plea for help in his moment of distress, whether that was Paul’s intended object or not.

And in 9:13-14, Ananias expresses great fear of Paul, exclaiming, “this man, how much harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem, and here he has authority from the chief priests to tie up all who call upon your name!”

The expression, “all who call upon your name” is an allusion back to Acts 2:21 (“all who call upon the name of the Lord”), which is rooted in Joel 2:32 (cf. Acts 22:16). The OT is saturated with this sort of language, particularly in cultic/religious contexts, when prayer is offered up to none other than the God of Israel (cf. Gen. 4:26, Gen. 12:8, Gen. 13:4, Gen. 16:13, Gen. 21:33, Gen. 26:25, Ex. 34:5, 1Ki 18:24, 2Ki 5:11, Zep 3:9, Ps. 116:13, Ps. 116:17, etc). Given these intertextual connections, it seems out of place to suggest that Peter could not (or did not) invoke the Lord Jesus Christ as the direct object and recipient of his prayer in Acts 1:24-25.

In 1 Peter, Christ is “Lord” when alluding to OT texts where the Divine Name is present. In 1 Peter 2:3, there is a clear allusion to Ps. 34:8 (“if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good”). It is not coincidental that the author then goes onto allude to Ps. 34 later in his epistle (1 Peter 3:10-12). That Jesus is the referent in 1 Peter 2:3 is brought out by what is said in the following verse, “to whom you are drawing near, a living stone rejected by men but chosen and precious in the sight of God” (1 Peter 2:4, Lexham).

Following this, our author then goes on to cite a litany of intertextually related “stone” texts, vv. 6-8 (Lexham):



The first text (1 Peter 2:6) cited is a reference to Is. 28:16, “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.” The second text (1 Peter 2:7) cited is a reference to Ps. 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected, This became the very corner stone.” The third text (1 Peter 2:8) cited is a reference to Is. 8:14, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”

What may go unnoticed is that this final text which Peter cites (Is. 8:12-14 LXX), is with reference to “the Lord of hosts” as the “stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,”



Not only does Isaiah 8 identify the “Lord” as the “rock of offense,” but Peter even describes “Christ the Lord” following the very same verbal pattern that Isaiah 8 uses of YHWH when he writes,

1Peter 3:14-15
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτῶν μὴ φοβηθῆτε μηδὲ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what they fear, or be in dread, but honor Christ the Lord as holy)

Isaiah 8:12-13 LXX
τὸν δὲ φόβον αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῆτε οὐδὲ μὴ ταραχθῆτε, κύριον αὐτὸν ἁγιάσατε
(But do not fear what it fears, or be in dread; honor the Lord himself as holy)

Same Peter, right?

That depends on what you mean by the Son "ontologically" speaking or "positionally" speaking? Can you please explain the difference? Also, and I have heard your argument for decades in the form of 1 John 2:27, you know, the part that says, "And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you."

This anointing John is talking about has to do with how different the true believers are from the false teachers. 1 John 2:23-26, "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. vs24, As for you, let that abide in you which you have heard from the beginning, If what you have heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."

Vs, 25, And this is the promise which He Himself made to us; eternal life." Vs26, "These things I have written to you concerning THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU." This anointing implies the presence of the Holy Spirit, who makes it possible for us to escape dependence on human teachers, mainly false teachers. John is "NOT" advocating abolishing teachers; he was functioning as a teacher when he wrote the book. The bottom line, a Spirit led Christian can detect truth and error without aid from any new breed of teacher. Does that make sense Michael68?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Response forthcoming! Will likely have something by tomorrow... grab the glasses while you wait. This is gonna be good.

My answer still stands! It depends on whether or not one believes Jesus is God in nature (John 10:30) or He is not God in function. Please read Philippians 2:5-8. Do you personally believe Jesus Christ is God in nature or essence? The verse your quoting (John 17:3) is the one that states "the Father is the only true God." If a person does not believe Jesus Christ is not God in flesh, (John 1:14) then of course they do not have eternal life. This is not hard to understand. What say you, "Who is Jesus Christ?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I did address you question but you did not address mine. So let me try it this way. At John 20:28 Thomas makes this statement to Jesus Christ Himself, "My Lord and my God." He literally says in the Greek, "The Lord of me and the God of me." Are these "plain" word of Thomas true?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto