Are the trumpets and vials chronological in Revelation?

i think you're onto something!

on like my 237th reading of the book (did i mention i'm a slow learner? lol), it occurred to me John is relating 7 cycles of judgement. he's retelling the same kind of things... recapitulation, i think it's called. there's intensification with each cycle. this is merely my opinion, of course. thanks for starting the thread!

Thats what I was thinking as well. Let me know what do you believe is the order in which the seals trumpets and vials unfold?

The last vial, trumpet and seal seem to have "this is the end" attached to them, not only do the islands flee but in the seventh trumpet it says the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our God and His Christ.

Numbers are usually used to specify order, but I could be wrong. It happened once before...

The 6th seal is not the "last seal". The 6th seal describes events that happen after the 7th trump sounds. Those events do not happen when the seal is opened. It's speaking of the future just like Christ did in the OD but the events described did not actually happen when Christ described them.

The vials pour after the 7th trump sounds so that is why we see islands fleeing. One is a view of the future from the 6th seal, one is the event actually happening which is part of the vials.

No, that would be the last 2/3rds of it since you think a third was already poured out. The interpretation is wrong. God's wrath starts at the 7th trump, Rev 11. Before that the wrath of God had not yet started.

Malachi 3:2 “And who is able to bear the day of His coming, and who is able to stand when He appears? For He is like the fire of a refiner, and like the soap of a launderer.”

Revelation 6:17, “because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Isaiah 13:1-8, “The message concerning Baḇel which Yeshayahu son of Amots saw. Lift up a banner on the high mountain, raise your voice to them; wave your hand, let them enter the gates of the nobles. I have commanded My set-apart ones; I have also called My mighty men for My displeasure, My proudly exulting ones. The noise of an uproar in the mountains, like that of many people! A noise of uproar of the reigns of nations gathered together! יהוה of hosts is gathering an army for battle. They are coming from a distant land, from the end of the heavens, even יהוה and His weapons of displeasure, to destroy all the earth. (Isa 24:1-23, Isa 34:1-17, Isa 63:1-19 and Isa 66:1-24) Howl, for the day of יהוה is near! It comes as a destruction from the Almighty Therefore all hands go limp, every man’s heart melts, and they shall be afraid. Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, they are in pain as a woman in labour; they are amazed at one another, their faces aflame!”

This shows us the 7 Trumpets are contained within the 7th Seal;

"And when He opened the seventh seal,...the seven messengers who stand before יהוה, and to them were given seven trumpets...the seven messengers who held the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

The trumpets come AFTER the 7th seal. They are not part of it.

Thanks. So what is the event of chronology?

Seals -> trumpets -> and vials?

yes, otherwise the book ends at the end of chapter six.

i think the cycles of judgement have been repeating for many years. i'm not sure about order, though.

This shows us the 7 Trumpets are contained within the 7th Seal, as in when the 7th seal is opened the trumpeters line up and begin to sound, the seals are what unleash them:

Revelation 8:2-6, "And when He opened the seventh seal,...the seven messengers who stand before יהוה, and to them were given seven trumpets...the seven messengers who held the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

Consider this. God has a cup of wrath for the world corporately, meaning everyone on earth. Because He does not want to destroy everyone, but gather in a great harvest of souls, in love He only pours out a third cup, along with a message of repentance and be saved before probation closes at the end of the seventh trumpet.

He has another cup, according to Rev. 14:9, that will be poured out in "full strength," but on only those who have taken the mark. This comes in the form of the seven vials/bowl judgements.

According to Rev.7:1-3, four angles have a mission to harm the land, sea and trees. But they have been put on hold. Now read the first four trumpets of Rev. 8:7-12. You will discover that the harm that the four angles of Rev.7, were assigned to carry out, will be fulfilled when the land, sea, and trees receive one-third damage during the first four trumpets. This is literal damage and is designed to put the earth in survival mode, in order that the gospel shall be consider by all survivors.

Yes.

They are not part of the seal. They are spoken of after the event of the seal is shown.

And is there a scripture speaking of this cup that is only partially poured?

Show me in Scripture plase.

Also why did you cut part of my post out, the part that proved what I claimed?

Revelation 8:1-6, "And when He opened the seventh seal, there came to be silence in the heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven messengers who stand before Elohim, and to them were given seven trumpets. And another messenger came and stood at the slaughter-place, holding a golden censer, and much incense was given to him, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the set-apart ones upon the golden slaughter-place which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the set-apart ones, went up before Elohim from the hand of the messenger. And the messenger took the censer, and filled it with fire from the slaughter-place, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, and thunders, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven messengers who held the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The scriptures have been posted. I am disagreeing with the interpretation that the trumpets are part of the last seal.


I choose to address what I choose to address.

So no Scripture to back up you claim? ok

You are having an imaginary conversation with yourself rather than engage in this thread.

Both, but mostly in order. The number 7 equals divine completion, so all of God's judgments are contained in the 7 Trumpet Judgments, they are the 7 Thunders in Rev. 10. In Rev. 8:13 we see the final three trumps are the Three Woes. So, Trumps 5, 6 and 7 are Woes 1, 2 and 3. We see Woes 1 & 2 in Rev. 9, but in Rev. 11 we see Woe #2 ends with the Two-witnesses death then the 7th Trump blows bringing Woe #3 which was to come quickly, what most do not grasp is just like Woe #2 is mentioned in Rev. 11 but happens in Rev. 9, likewise we see Woe #3 mentioned in Rev. 11 and the 7th Trump brings victory, but we get the details in Rev. 16, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe and emit from the 7th Trump, that is why all of God's wrath emit from the 7 Trumps. So, the 7 Vials are the 7th Trump, which God tells us is the 3rd Woe. In order to understand the Order of God's Wrath we must first understand the Seals.

When each Wax Seal is taken off, it does nothing, you still can not read the scroll. Imagine a close with 7 locks on it and a bunch of gifts inside, if you have taken 6 locks off and described each gift unto your friends, they have still yet to see any of the gifts until lock #7 is taken off. This is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, this is why there is silence in heaven, it is a sad event when billions of humans have to be judged and killed, God was sad when He had to flood the whole world, this is why in Rev. 10 the book is both bitter and sweet, John understand billions will be killed, that is bitter, but life eternal with God/Jesus is sweet. So, in essence, the Seals are Jesus prophesying what the 7 Trumpet Judgments will bring, but only the 6th Seal is talking about God's Wrath per se, Seals 1-5 is the Anti-Christ's reign of terror being foretold by Jesus. 1.) He goes forth conquering for 42 months. 2.) His wars will last 42 months. 3.) His rule will bring 42 months of famine. 4.) His reign of terror over 42 months will bring Sickness, Death and the Grave. 5.) He will Martyrs those who repent during the 70th week, at least the ones he can get at. With the 6th Seal we see Jesus foretelling about God's coming Wrath over a 42 month period of time. Only now can the Trumps and Vials be understood.

The 7 Trumps are God's Judgments in full. The first four Trumps are one event, an Asteroid Impact. The Fire comes in ahead of the impact as its breaking up, that is Trumpet #1. Then with Trump #2 we see the Impact in the Sea of this Asteroid (Mountain on fire). Trumpet #3 is the same impact, but it is speaking about some kind of "Nuclear Like Fallout" (Wormwood) be it sulfur or whatever !! This will poison the fresh waters in 1/3 of the world (IMHO, the New World only). Then Trump #4 is the Sun & Moon getting dimmer, because of all the smoke with 1/3 of the world burning, if a 1/3 of the trees burn a 1/3 of the world will burn (North & South America imho) and the Old World will be preserved, after all Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for 1o00 years.

Then as Rev. 8:13 says the last three Trumps are the Three Woes. Rev. 9 shows us Woes 1 & 2, then Revelation 16 shows us Woe #3, which is the 7 Vials, which emits from the 7th Trumpet. Jesus does not come back in Matt. 24:29 like people think or say, he says the Sun & Moon will go DARK immediately after the tribulation of those days [start] but it will last 1260 days, not one day. Verse 30 says THEN which comes 1260 days later. See Zech. 14:1-2 and then verse 3 its the exact same thing, in verse 1 we see the DOTL arrives, in vs. 2 Jerusalem is sacked by the Anti-Christ, verse 3 starts out like this, THEN and we see Jesus shows up on Mt. Zion, but between vs. 2 and 3 is a 1260 day time period, just like in Matt. 24:29...........THEN............vs 30 is 1260 days later.