Works Complete Faith?

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romans113336

romans113336

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cv5 said:
Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man SAY he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

A false profession of faith....OBVIOUSLY. You missed that as well as the entire thrust of the chapter.
Did you listen to Chronister? No. Yet you prattle on incoherently about that which you do not understand.

James 2 speaks NOTHING to losing your salvation OR salvation predicated upon works. Absolutely nothing.
Rather, it speaks to a FALSE profession of faith by pharisaical faithless and wealthy apostates who CARE NOTHING for the Body BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A PART OF IT!
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Yep, then he teaches us how faith does justify and does save in the end: justified by works which complete faith.

You, who delight in revenge and slander, despite being saved, are a great example of everything I'm saying. You have life but you walk in dead works. You are unleavened, but you need to purge out the old leaven.
 
cv5

cv5

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#342
Nov 20, 2018
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#342
cv5 said:
Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man SAY he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

A false profession of faith....OBVIOUSLY. You missed that as well as the entire thrust of the chapter.
Did you listen to Chronister? No. Yet you prattle on incoherently about that which you do not understand.

James 2 speaks NOTHING to losing your salvation OR salvation predicated upon works. Absolutely nothing.
Rather, it speaks to a FALSE profession of faith by pharisaical faithless and wealthy apostates who CARE NOTHING for the Body BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A PART OF IT!
Click to expand...
Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man SAY he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can a FASLE profession of faith save any man. NO!
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
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Sep 23, 2023
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#343
cv5 said:
Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man SAY he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can a FASLE profession of faith save any man. NO!
Click to expand...
He never says it's false, he simply says it's "incomplete".
 
romans113336

romans113336

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Sep 23, 2023
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#344
cv5 said:
Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man SAY he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can a FASLE profession of faith save any man. NO!
Click to expand...
When he says faith is comparable to a body, and that bodies can either be incomplete (without a spirit--dead), or complete (with a spirit--alive), he never mentions a "mannequin". :ROFL: If he was saying, "be on the lookout for FALSE faith" he would've said "some people have a mannequin faith--it looks like a body, but it's not a body!" No, he never mentions a FALSE body. He mentions INCOMPLETE and COMPLETE bodies--which correspond to INCOMPLETE and COMPLETE faith. Dead bodies are REAL bodies, they're merely INCOMPLETE bodies. I assure you dead bodies are REAL bodies--and DEAD faith is real faith, just incomplete.

It's so clear this is a call for his "adulterous" audience (Ja 4) to repent and act right.
Just as Paul's call for the Corinthians to repent and act right.
That's it. No mystery.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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#348
Bob-Carabbio said:
How long have YOU been living completely "SIN FREE"? IF you're Born again, why do YOU continue to sin, "in the light of these things"??
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Give answers to the points laid out for you. Isn't that the honest way to provide a "response"?

Here are the seven points disproving your reading of Romans 7 :

romans113336 said:
1. It is about the past--"when we were in the flesh, the Law aroused our sinful passions", whereas Christians are "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" (Ro 8:9).
2. Paul says "no covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in God's Kingdom", but the man in Ro 7 is completely conquered by sin, and, explicitly, the sin of covetousness. Is Paul saying he has no inheritance in God's Kingdom? That's what you are saying, even if you don't understand you're saying that.
3. The man in Ro 7 could not keep God's Law, but Paul did (Ro 8:4).
4. The man in Ro 7 was "held captive" to Sin, but, after Christ (Ro 7:24,25), he is "set free" (Ro 7:6, 8:2).
5. The man in Ro 7 is "dead" in his sins, but Christians are "alive from the dead" (Ro 6:13).

Not sure how you're disagreeing, in the light of these things.
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romans113336 said:
Actually, Paul said his conscience was clear and he wasn't aware he was sinning.

1 Cor 4
4For I am not aware of anything against myself; however I am not vindicated by this, but the one who examines me is the Lord.

So, no, again, Ro 7 is not descriptive of Paul's life as a Christian.
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romans113336 said:
Also, Paul said that he, as a Christian, made his body his slave (1 Co 9:26).
What is sin? Spiritual slavery.
But, he had it the other way around: he (his inward man) made his body its slave.
So he had sin under control.

So, again, no, Ro 7 is not about Paul's Christian life, but about his pre-Christian life as a Jew under the Law.
Click to expand...
 
romans113336

romans113336

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#349
Bob-Carabbio said:
How long have YOU been living completely "SIN FREE"? IF you're Born again, why do YOU continue to sin, "in the light of these things"??
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Not sure why @cv5 is agreeing with this--a post he deleted (once he finally recognized the arguments I was presenting were valid, and upended his view of Romans 7, and were not making the argument he thought they were making) actually agreed with ME! 🤣
 
romans113336

romans113336

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#350
Bob-Carabbio said:
How long have YOU been living completely "SIN FREE"? IF you're Born again, why do YOU continue to sin, "in the light of these things"??
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is called a false dilemma (a logical fallacy).

The options are not :
1. Romans 7 describes Paul's Christian walk--he struggled with sin, as we all do.
2. Romans 7 does not describe Paul's Christian walk--you are claiming you are sinless.

Those two aren't the options I'm limited to.

It's tangential, anyway, but at least be straightforward, and offer responses to the reasons why I disagree, don't just reiterate "I don't agree!", pretending that that's a valid response to the specific reasons I gave for disagreeing.

Address the reasons I don't read Ro 7 as you do, then you will have proven I shouldn't read Ro 7 as I do, just as my reasons have proven why it is reasonable to read Ro 7 as I do.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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romans113336 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is called a false dilemma (a logical fallacy).
Click to expand...
Not a dilemma, false or otherwise at all. You appear to claim is that Paul, in Romans 7, is writing as a NON-Christian, when he obviously had the same problem with SIN that we both do (since we BOTH STILL SIN, as born again Christians). I assume you're "Born Again", as I am.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#352
Sep 23, 2023
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#352
Bob-Carabbio said:
Not a dilemma, false or otherwise at all. You appear to claim is that Paul, in Romans 7, is writing as a NON-Christian, when he obviously had the same problem with SIN that we both do (since we BOTH STILL SIN, as born again Christians). I assume you're "Born Again", as I am.
Click to expand...
Again, I furnished specific reasons why I read it the way I do; if you want to prove that I am erring, and help me (and the readers) out with that, address the reasons, because that will help me change my mind to see it your way, the "right" (as you would see it) way.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#353
Sep 23, 2023
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#353
Bob-Carabbio said:
Not a dilemma, false or otherwise at all. You appear to claim is that Paul, in Romans 7, is writing as a NON-Christian, when he obviously had the same problem with SIN that we both do (since we BOTH STILL SIN, as born again Christians). I assume you're "Born Again", as I am.
Click to expand...
You're saying, "I've got you: either you agree with me, or else you're wrong because you're claiming sinlessness (bc John says anyone who says they don't sin is a liar)"--again, those aren't the only two options.

1696196081568.png
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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romans113336 said:
Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
Click to expand...


No---------------------- but you should be ashamed of yourself for posting false doctrine --for presenting a false narrative about God's Faith -----

Works complete Faith is False Doctrine ------Period ----

Faith produces Good Works ------

So X that
 
cv5

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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#355
Bob-Carabbio said:
Not a dilemma, false or otherwise at all. You appear to claim is that Paul, in Romans 7, is writing as a NON-Christian, when he obviously had the same problem with SIN that we both do (since we BOTH STILL SIN, as born again Christians). I assume you're "Born Again", as I am.
Click to expand...
He is on ignore. I'm done. Have other priorities.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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romans113336 said:
Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
Click to expand...
The meme didn’t mention you. You assumed it was meant for you. You even posted an ‘x’ saying you disagree with it. Perhaps you think people shouldn’t watch out for those who teach deadly doctrines. For that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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#357
Dino246 said:
The meme didn’t mention you. You assumed it was meant for you. You even posted an ‘x’ saying you disagree with it. Perhaps you think people shouldn’t watch out for those who teach deadly doctrines. For that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Click to expand...
Actually, the poster just admitted it was about me.

studentoftheword said:


No---------------------- but you should be ashamed of yourself for posting false doctrine --for presenting a false narrative about God's Faith -----

Works complete Faith is False Doctrine ------Period ----

Faith produces Good Works ------

So X that
Click to expand...
Obviously, I agree people should look out for false doctrine, and the reason I responded with an "X" was because I disagreed with baseless accusations made as a last resort by people who are powerless to prove their Scriptural arguments with Scriptural reason and logic.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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Sep 23, 2023
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#360
studentoftheword said:


No---------------------- but you should be ashamed of yourself for posting false doctrine --for presenting a false narrative about God's Faith -----

Works complete Faith is False Doctrine ------Period ----

Faith produces Good Works ------

So X that
Click to expand...
You can't prove it is false doctrine, as it is explicitly stated, and this frustrates you, so you namecall. That's what it comes down to.
 
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