Sunday Worship?

No, sorry but that's not true under the New Covenant... you are very confused.

You aren't following the Mosaic Law.... are you doing animal sacrifices to cover your sin?

No? Then you are disobedient to your own teaching

When you see someone in your household do some grievous sin...do you hit them with rocks until they are dead? No? Then you aren't following the Mosaic Law

The Mosaic law included animal sacrifices, do you suppose we are to continue the sacrifices?

I'm not made that claim so I'm not going to defend it.

The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so if someone claimed that the Spirit leads us to rebel against it, then that would be the clearest indication that their claim is false. It is absurd to interpret Acts 15 as ruling that Gentles shouldn't follow Christ. In Acts 15:1, men from Judea were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose, which should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded.

Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat it as being an non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other things from the Mosaic Law that Gentiles should obey like the greatest two commandments while treating it as being an exhaustive list to limit which laws Gentiles should follow. Moreover, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other laws hang on the greatest two commandments, so if you think that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that Gentiles should obey all of the other laws that hang on them.

In Acts 15:19-21, it was not given as an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers, but as stated it was a list intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused by saying that Gentiles would to continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in synagogues, so Gentiles were already expected to be keeping the Sabbath. Their purpose was not to rule that Gentiles shouldn't follow Christ, but to avoid overwhelming new believers by teaching them how to obey the Law of Moses over time.

The Spirit does not have the role of leading us to rebel against the Father, but just the opposite.

The Christian life isn't about doing...it's about becoming. That is, God is conforming us to the image of Christ. Thus, God isn't changing us into people accountable to the law, but transforming us into people like His Son. Jesus didn't need a law not to sin. Neither do we need a law not to sin. We need only walk in the Spirit.
This is also a part of being saved from our sin...it's penalty, power, and eventually its presence. The power of sin is the law...1 Corinthians 15:56.

In Acts 18:18, Paul took vow involving shaving his head and only vow prescribed in the Bible that involves doing that is a Nazarite vow, which involves making offerings (Numbers 6). Likewise, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to play for the offerings of others in order to disprove false rumors that he was speaking against obeying the Mosaic Law and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the Mosaic Law, so offerings did not cease with the death or resurrection of Jesus, but only ceased because of the destruction of the temple. However, there are prophesies about when another temple will be built and when offerings will resume (Ezekiel 40-46). If all of Israel had accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then the 2nd temple would not have been destroyed and offerings would not have ceased.

But, you have made the claim the the Holy Spirit today leds people to follow the OT law... so where's the beef?



That's for OT believers, not New Testament believer.

Under the NT we follow the Law of Christ because.... One Who is greater than Moses is here

Hebrews 3:1-6
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
For this Man (speaking of Jesus) was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


And under the New Covenant... the Father has assigned us to live under the Law of Christ... NOT the law of Moses which has passed away

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Indeed, while we should listen to the word of Christ, Christ is one with the Father, so he should not be interpreted as leading us to rebel against Him, but rather the sum of everything that he taught by word and by example was to lead us to obey the Mosaic Law.

I think that Paul is an Apostles of Christ, but then again I also think that Paul taught us to follow Christ. When you interpret Paul as teaching us not to follow Christ, then you are those one who should not consider him to be an Apostle of Christ.

Jesus set an example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul aa he is an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). Being a follower of Christ is not about refusing to follow him.

I've never claimed that we are required to obey the Mosaic Law in order to earn our justification, so you are completely misapplying Galatians 5:4 because it is not even speaking about the Mosaic Law. It is absurd to think that someone is going to hell for obeying what God has commanded, God does did not mislead His people to hell by giving the Mosaic Law, but rather He can be trusted to give laws that are for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

Ok, i just wanted to make sure of who this is.
Scripture never gives an out to stop sacrificing animals except that Jesus is the sacrificial lamb. So no temple is not an excuse. You better get to the temple and make your sacrifices. But know that if you you will viod the sacrifice of Christ for you.
We have no further conversation so there is no call to reply to me. Go you way, ill go mine.

Indeed, I have made that claim, so I will defend it.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, in John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resit the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law.

In Deuteronomy 30:1-10, it prophesies about a time when the Israelites will return from exile, God will circumcise their hearts, and they will return to obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27, they are speaking in regard to the New Covenant and the Israelites returning from exile, having their hearts circumcise by means of the Spirit, and returning to obedience to the Mosaic Law by saying that God will put the Mosaic Law in our mind and write it on our hearts, and that he will take away our hearts of flesh, give us hearts of stone, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law. So the New Covenant is all about Israel return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with the promise and the Gospel that Jesus spread in Matthew 4:15-23.

The same God who gave the Law to Moses also sent Jesus to bless us by teaching us to obey it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel (Acts 3:25-26), so there is no disagreement. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in in obedience to the Mosaic Law and I see no reason to think that following the Law of Christ is contrary to following Christ.

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant does everything that the Mosaic Covenant does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the New Covenant still involves following the Music Law (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

There is no temple because God allowed Rome to destroy the temple, the city, and the nation, and drive the Jews out of the land in 70AD.
He allowed this because the Jews continued to practice the temple worship system that was an abomination to God after they murdered His Son, their Messiah.
If you insist on doing as the Jews did, it to is an abomination to God because it rejects what Jesus did on the cross.
He confirmed the new covenant of grace, mercy, forgiveness, and life with His precious sinless blood on the cross.
The veil of the temple was rent, signifying the temple worship was no longer valid or acceptable to God.
Go study Hebrews. It is very clear that the Law, the old covenant has been fulfilled and replaced with the new covenant God promised in Jeremiah.
You best be very careful in what you are doing and teaching concerning your denying what Jesus did for you.

A Christ is by definition a follower of Christ, so while it is what we become, but what we become is someone to follows Christs. Being confirmed to the image of Christ is about having the same character. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact image of God's character, so he is all of God's invisible character traits, such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control in the form of a body that we can see and he practiced those traits by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so when we are conformed to his image we are made into someone who partakes in the divine nature through following his example. Even if Jesus hadn't been born under the Mosaic Law and obligated to obey it, then he still would have lived in perfect accordance with it because he still would have had the same character traits. The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so I don't see the sense in denying that we need it.

A law that is the power of sin is a law that is sinful, however, Romans 7:7 says that the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, therefore 1 Corinthians 15:56 is not referring to the Law of God, but rather it is the law of sin that is sinful and that is the power of sin.

Even if I were completely disobedient to my own teaching, it wouldn't change the fact that followers of God should follow God's commands in accordance with Christ's example. However, there is no requirement to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that he has already paid.

As long as you redefine things, you will err. But I have enjoyed the discussion. Grace and peace.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted the Israelites to repent and return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, so it is absurd to think that it is an abomination to God to do that. Jesus was going around teaching good news and healing people, so he was extremely popular with the people. Jesus was arrested in the middle of the night and rushed through an illegal trial, so the vast majority of the Jewish population had no idea about what had happened until it was already too late. There was one crowd that was stirring up against Jesus out of the millions of Jews who were in Jerusalem. Moreover, on the cross, Jesus prayed to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us form all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20) while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is the way to reject what he accomplished. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of negating anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).

[qoote]The veil of the temple was rent, signifying the temple worship was no longer valid or acceptable to God.[/quote]
The Bible does not say that the veil being torn signifies that, but rather that's just what you've made up.

Go study Hebrews. It is very clear that the Law, the old covenant has been fulfilled and replaced with the new covenant God promised in Jeremiah.
You best be very careful in what you are doing and teaching concerning your denying what Jesus did for you.[/QUOTE]
"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be", so Jesus spent his ministry fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly obey it by word and by example. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, not to something unique that Jesus did to replace it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ, so again it refers to correctly obeying, but you don't consistently interpret that as saying that we replace the Law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by brining Gentiles to obedience to it in word and in deed, which refers to fully preaching it, not to replacing it.

I am by no means denying what Jesus did for us, but rather repenting and becoming zealous for obeying the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what he did for us (Acts 21:20). You should be careful with speaking against following what God has commanded.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if you think that the authors of the NT did this, then according to God you should consider them to be false prophets, so though the reality is that they were servants of God who never spoke against obeying Him. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. The author of Hebrews should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God.

What do you think that I am redefining? Me too.

That's what I have been sharing with you all along. One example, being conformed to the image of Christ isn't being conformed to His character. It is being conformed to His nature. His character flows from His nature. If you are like Him, you will do as He does. This goes far beyond our outward behavior. It is born of a changed inward reality.

Is there any place in the Bible where it says not to keep the sabbath, but to change it to Sunday then?

What defines the old law and the new law.?
According to the Bible the 10 commandments and old covenant are not the same thing.

We are all Jews by adoption, through Jesus we are part of the family of God.

We become part of the family when we accept Jesus.

Mar 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The sabbath was made for MANKIND not just the Jews.

Mat 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Bible does not say that the veil being torn signifies that, but rather that's just what you've made up.

Go study Hebrews. It is very clear that the Law, the old covenant has been fulfilled and replaced with the new covenant God promised in Jeremiah.
You best be very careful in what you are doing and teaching concerning your denying what Jesus did for you.[/QUOTE]
"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be", so Jesus spent his ministry fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly obey it by word and by example. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, not to something unique that Jesus did to replace it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ, so again it refers to correctly obeying, but you don't consistently interpret that as saying that we replace the Law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by brining Gentiles to obedience to it in word and in deed, which refers to fully preaching it, not to replacing it.

I am by no means denying what Jesus did for us, but rather repenting and becoming zealous for obeying the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what he did for us (Acts 21:20). You should be careful with speaking against following what God has commanded.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if you think that the authors of the NT did this, then according to God you should consider them to be false prophets, so though the reality is that they were servants of God who never spoke against obeying Him. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. The author of Hebrews should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God.[/QUOTE]


The author of Hebrews spoke the truth.
He clearly taught that for those Hebrew Christians to return to the temple worship system was a waste of time.
We now have a High Priest in Jesus and the office of an earthly priest no longer was valid.
You clearly ate confused and do not under Scripture.

I will pray that you will see the truth and truly repent before it is too late.

The sabbath was given before sin and before the need of salvation.
Where is the Bible verse that states that the Seventh day sabbath is a shadow?

Some sabbaths were introduced after sin and were shadows but the seventh day sabbath was given before sin.

No Bible verse proves that sunday is to be kept holy.
No Bible verse tells us to keep sunday holy.

Mat 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.