The Redeemer come to or from Zion & do the Israelites have an everlasting convent or will it be taken away?

The deliverer / Redeemer come to Zion or from Zion & do the Israelites have an everlasting convent or will it be taken away?

Come to or from Zion?

Roman 11:26: And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

Isaiah 59:20-21: “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the LORD.

Hebrew 12:22 - But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Do the Israelites have a everlasting convent - even when Jesus returns

Gen 17:8 - Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Outside of Jesus no one is saved. Everything God promised was fulfilled exactly how He said it would be. People like to throw "replacement theology" at others who don't subscribe to there being 2 paths for redemption now, one for us and one for the Jew. I think this way of God told Israel that through them would redemption for the world come, and it did exactly as He said. One is no longer a Jew outwardly by the flesh, but inwardly as a matter of the heart. Jesus is the ONLY way any of us are getting Jew or gentile. I believe God is 100% faithful to His word, it was the Jews that played the whore and rejected Him (not all of them of course, it was Jews that started all this). When confronted with the God of the universe they cried "crucify Him" and "His blood be on our heads and the heads of our children", and these covenant breaking Jews fell under His judgment in that generation just as Jesus told them they would. Their house has been desolate since 70 AD, again, exactly as He said it would. Our God moves forward and fulfills His word, He will not be moving backwards to the temple system that foreshadowed Jesus. Why would He?. His word is everlasting, and His covenants are by extension the same, but if you are asking if we are now on a different path of salvation than the Jews, as if we have two different ways, then absolutely not.
People have told me that what I'm talking about is replacement theology, I reject that. There are too many Jewish Christians for that to hold up. I think it's "fulfillment theology", is a closer description in my opinion.

Christ the Deliverer with COME TO Zion (Jerusalem). He will stand on the Mount of Olives, which will split in two. He will consummate the battle of Armageddon at that time. And He does have a covenant which He will fulfil. But not all Jews worldwide will be saved. God will cause many Jews to repent and be converted at that time.

I believe in terms of the entire first nation of Israel, not just the one tribe, Judah.

Yes, Jesus Yeshua is of the tribe of Judah, but until His first advent, there was no such thing as Judaism for even at that time the nation was that which was ordained to Israel , not in part.
Today, Judaism is comprised of many denominational differences.

The true Jews since the advent of our Savior, are all who parse Yah in spirit and in truth. This covers all who praise Him, the Jew first and then the Greek.

John "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This was said to His own 1st. Then the other nations. Just can't skip over it. Only one door we all have to enter through. Being Jewish does not save you. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. "All Israel will be saved". That's not a easy answer. its a very long rabbit hole.

Not being Jewish rather being a Jew are we all for a true Jew is one who praises God.

Beware of those who say they are Jews but are not but they are an assembly of Satan.

Thanks Needevidence for your question about these verses:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. " KJV

The word 'so' in this verse does not mean 'then'. It does not say 'and then all Israel will be saved', as so many would-be theologians have decided. Rather, the word 'so' means 'in this manner'. In this manner all Israel will be saved. And what manner is that? The manner just described in the preceeding verses. That is the manner in which part of the cultural Jews will be saved (the apostle Paul for instance) and part of the Gentiles will be saved. That is the manner. And look at what it says this salvation is about: "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer" That is telling us about Jesus (the Deliverer) coming from heaven (Zion) to turn people from sin. This is what happened when Jesus came from heaven to go to the cross to take the sins of those who believe in him. The next verse even tells us that that is the very covenant we are talking about. It's Jesus' covenant with all true believers Jews and Gentiles (called all Israel in the Romans verse we are looking at). We read: "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

You are misrepresenting what is in Romans 11. It s NOT about His first coming, but His Second Coming. A careful reading of that portion will make this crystal clear.

We must understand the OT by the revelation of the NT.

When people read this:

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

They think God is making a covenant between Abraham and his natural offspring. Here "descendants" can be written "seed".

Yet, in Galatians, Paul (a Jew) reveals the matter completely:

"Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ."

We can say "I have a bag of seeds" and we can also say, about the same bag, "I have a bag of seed". The former relates to the item (seeds) the later relates to its nature (seed intended to grow into something with life). Paul wrote that the second meaning (seed) is what God meant. That Seed IS Christ. There can be no mistake.

Furthermore, the writer of Hebrews reveals the nature of the covenant and its meaning:

"For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 16 For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. 17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.

19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

Two things: notice that God swore to Himself. This was a covenant God that Father to God the Son. Abraham was not held to account. God would see it through. THIS is the substance of the anchor of our soul: because God cannot be denied. There is no way this covenant can fail on account of the weakness of man.

Secondly, we see only God walking between the animals in Genesis 15. Abraham was not required to walk between them: the implication of this sign was that whomever brokered the agreement, they each agree that if either one does not see it through, the other may do to them what was done to the animals. Abraham was not required to walk between the sacrifices. God, alone, was responsible for fulfilling the covenant.

Some may say, "But the promises were given to Abraham and his seeds and only other parts of the covenant were given to Christ." If that is your conclusion then you must include the descendants of Ismael in the promises as they are also Abraham's seed. But that is not the case: the promises were given to Abraham and his Seed (singular) was Christ.

And further: "what about the land the Jews were given?" The land was given to them, true. But this was a natural event intending to show the spiritual reality. There much that I could teach about what each of these names mean as they relate to the spiritual reality of receiving the promises in Christ: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites"

Further food for thought: Jesus the man died as a Jew. Christ arose. Christ is not a Jew, He is a many-membered man whose essence includes all men...All who look to Him receive the promises. In Him all become co-heirs with Him and they receive the promises given to Abraham. This is a spiritual transaction and is in no way related to our natural DNA.

Some may cry "Replacement theology!" (By the way, the liberals have nothing on the religious when it comes to cancel-culture. The religious have spilled the blood of Righteous Abel and the blood of the saints even to this day. Just saying.) No one is replacing the Jews. The Jews were protected. Jesus, the Seed, was born. And the sacrifice for all men, so that men could be reconciled to God, was provided. The purpose of the Jews has been fulfilled. Certainly, all of Israel will be saved but do not make the mistake of the religious: the scriptures also make it clear: "All of Israel is not Israel." Israel literally means "Prince of God". Only those in Christ are Israel. The way into Him is provided freely to the Jews and to the non-Jews.

The Redeemer come to or from Zion & do the Israelites have an everlasting convent or will it be taken away?



They will be saved in and through Great Tribulation. That is end-time prophecy.

Revelation 12:
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

And that is not untrue either. Actually the twelve tribes of Israel are also included in the Abrahamic Covenant, as is "Greater Israel".

So while Christ is identified as the "seed" of Abraham (which is very important) there are also others when you read the Abrahamic Covenant carefully. Redeemed Jews from the twelve tribes are there. So are the ones from all over the world who believe God as Abraham did, and are justified by grace through faith. See Galatians. Therefore everyone needs to read the Abrahamic Covenant carefully, and its reiteration to Isaac and Jacob. What is in Romans 11 applies to redeemed and restored Israel AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.

I doubt I can teach you anything about this!

And I doubt I can do the same for you. Not to worry.

Too bad you guys don't exercise faith.

No comprendo.

Funny how the bad doctrine of the 40's and 50's still has sway over so many. It's so clear in the scriptures yet... here we are.

I'm just messing around. But each of you began with...I doubt. Hence, no faith.
I realize you weren't actually doubting God. Sometimes things just aren't funny, but I didn't have time to consult a focus group.

For the record, I doubted first and biggest!

amen that’s what we’re seeing here ( revelation 7 ) we see first those specifically of the tribes of Israel , ( ot covenant for only the blood and flesh of Abram the Hebrew

then we see the crowd of many innumerable gentiles appear speaking praises of the lamb( nt gospel sent to all people through Abraham’s spiritual seed Jesus

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek,( flesh and blood no longer matters in Christ belief in Jesus does ) there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:14, 16, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The same way the ot applies to Abrams offspring literwlly by flesh and blood and makes them seperwte from gentiles , the New Testament gospel applies to Abraham’s children through faith in Christ by the gospel who are born of all nations not by flesh and blood but by faith through the gospel