Predestination; are fates set in some cases?

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Jer. 18:7-8 At what instant I speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down and to destroy it, if that nation against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the eviltht I thought to do to them.
9-10 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, if it do evil im my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

God seems pretty clear about how he deals with nations.
Exactly! He deals with nations as they obey or disobey his word. If....then....
 

John146

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Is there one correct translation in every language that has bibles, or just for English speakers?
I'm only concerned with English. God never stated that he would preserve his word in multiple languages. Btw, if we had the "originals" would you ask that same question? Do you believe a translation can be the inspired word of God?
 

John146

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3. God knew that He would "change his mind" and it was His plan all along to do so.
Do you understand this makes God a liar? Did God lie when he stated, "yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown"? Was it part of God's plan to lie to get them to repent?
 

PaulThomson

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I'm only concerned with English. God never stated that he would preserve his word in multiple languages. Btw, if we had the "originals" would you ask that same question? Do you believe a translation can be the inspired word of God?
Any sound translation of scripture in any language is translated from the Greek and Hebrew and Chaldean Received Text into that language. The original Greek text was in all capitals without breaks between words and without punctuation and without chapter and verse numbers. All translations contain at least some errors due to decisions made about how sentences are punctuated and where they start and end.
 

PaulThomson

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More likely the God you imagine Calvinists imagine.
Can you explain how, for the entirety of someone's divine beginningless and endless existence, having had only one plan for every possible universe, and having known everything that will ever happen in all time everywhere necause they made every detail happen according to that single plan, would not be boring as hell?
 

PaulThomson

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A better understanding, IMHO, would be that God knows ahead of time. He is not confined to time as are we and to put it mildly, He has a better grasp on the universe than we do.
An even better understanding, IMHO, would be that time is merely a function of change, and if the Father and Son and Holy Spirit have conversations, they also experience time as statements and responses preceed and follow one another. Also that the future does not exist to be known, but specific plans and intentions one might hve for the future do exist. And that an omniscient God knows all that exists and has existed to be known, including His specific plans. And an omnipotent God is able to make any specific plans He has happen. And an omnipotent, omniscient God is able to mitigate the effects of His creatures decisions in order to keep His specific plans viable, but is able to give creatures the ability to make choices that are not just influenced by the pressure ol precedent past causes that have real existence, but are also influenced by the attraction of perceived future consequences that do not have real existence. Decisions influenced by perceptions of future consequences that do not yet have real existence cannot be completely predetermined. Therefore we have free will (free desires) and freedom to choose how to act regarding those desires, even if our options for action are limited.
 

PaulThomson

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3. God knew that He would "change his mind" and it was His plan all along to do so.
Only if one supposes that God knows everything that does not exist, such as every future event, which does not yet exist to be known.
 

NightTwister

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Jul 5, 2023
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Can you explain how, for the entirety of someone's divine beginningless and endless existence, having had only one plan for every possible universe, and having known everything that will ever happen in all time everywhere necause they made every detail happen according to that single plan, would not be boring as hell?
To you? Doubtful.
 

Adstar

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Jul 24, 2016
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God predestines because He foreknows our lives before we live them.. We have the freedom to accept the will of God or to resist the moving of the Holy Spirit and we do decide to do one or the other.. But God foreknows what we will do and from that foreknowledge He can predestines those who will be transformed into the image of Jesus at the resurrection..
 

PaulThomson

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Time is not a constraint to an Omniscient God.
i agree. What does that have to do with my comment -
"Only if one supposes that God knows everything that does not exist, such as every future event, which does not yet exist to be known" ?
 

PaulThomson

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God predestines because He foreknows our lives before we live them..
Your syllogism is -

A: God foreknows our lives before we live them. And,
B: We are living our lives. Therefore,
C: God has predestined our lives.

What evidence makes your first premise certain?
Why do premises A and B necessitate the conclusion C ?
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Only if one supposes that God knows everything that does not exist, such as every future event, which does not yet exist to be known.
Possible outcomes are within the purview of God's omniscience.