Lost salvation or name not in the book

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Please don't call anyone on here oxymoron. We are are trying to learn and understand God's Word better. Noone is stupid or dumb. Some may be unlearned and even a little harsh sometimes with their opinions but we always should when appropriate use Scripture to help those with less knowledge.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

became vain - would indicate that at one time their imaginations were humble and modest

was darkened - would indicate their heart was light at one time.
You've misinterpreted my writing as calling anyone an oxymoron. Is it then possible you've also misinterpreted the verse as calling the saved lost?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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God teaches about hell, and heaven so we can also. No one should preach only hell or too much of it because God doesn't but it's there and it's something that should be understood.
The gospel is good news, and being saved from hell is what we are directed to preach.
 
May 1, 2022
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You've misinterpreted my writing as calling anyone an oxymoron. Is it then possible you've also misinterpreted the verse as calling the saved lost?
I am not calling the saved lost. I simply saying the saved can willfully remove themselves from God and once again become lost. If they remain in that state God will turn them over to a reprobate mind.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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Please don't call anyone on here oxymoron. We are are trying to learn and understand God's Word better. Noone is stupid or dumb. Some may be unlearned and even a little harsh sometimes with their opinions but we always should when appropriate use Scripture to help those with less knowledge.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

became vain - would indicate that at one time their imaginations were humble and modest

was darkened - would indicate their heart was light at one time.
whoa, whoa! an oxymoron is just a pairing of words that appear mutually exclusive. like, jumbo shrimp, civil war, old news. from Greek "oxys" meaning sharp and "moronos" meaning dull. they're opposites.

@Mem was not being insulting to anyone or calling anyone stupid.
she was referring to the use of "lost saved". the words don't go together.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I am not calling the saved lost. I simply saying the saved can willfully remove themselves from God and once again become lost. If they remain in that state God will turn them over to a reprobate mind.
The verses I brought up illustrate the lost knowing that God exists but refuse to acknowledge Him as God, and if they persist on rejecting him, He gives them over to their reprobate mind, which is a mindset that resists the truth. It does not mean that they were once probate and then are "re" probated, it's an entire word with a definition of its own.
Paul refers to those that are reprobate in Titus 1:16, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." It literally means, "unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally)."

If we are saved, we become new and are given the mind of Christ, and the mind of Christ does not resist, let alone reject, the mind of Christ.

you can either have a reprobate mind or the mind of Christ, and it is an oxymoron to claim that anyone can possess both.
 
Oct 18, 2023
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The verses I brought up illustrate the lost knowing that God exists but refuse to acknowledge Him as God, and if they persist on rejecting him, He gives them over to their reprobate mind, which is a mindset that resists the truth. It does not mean that they were once probate and then are "re" probated, it's an entire word with a definition of its own.
Paul refers to those that are reprobate in Titus 1:16, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." It literally means, "unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally)."

If we are saved, we become new and are given the mind of Christ, and the mind of Christ does not resist, let alone reject, the mind of Christ.

you can either have a reprobate mind or the mind of Christ, and it is an oxymoron to claim that anyone can possess both.
Do you believe we have any Christian Essentials from Jesus Christ which are absolutely unnecessary and, if so, which ones?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Do you believe we have any Christian Essentials from Jesus Christ which are absolutely unnecessary and, if so, which ones?
One thing is essential, do you know what that is?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Do you believe we have any Christian Essentials from Jesus Christ which are absolutely unnecessary and, if so, which ones?
What is this nonsense? You keep repeating this foolish question over and over again. Just drop it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Do you believe we have any Christian Essentials from Jesus Christ which are absolutely unnecessary and, if so, which ones?
Your question essentially contains the implication that one anyone can absolutely receive Jesus Christ without receiving that which is essentially HIs essence, which is very slithery, essentially speaking.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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What I believe this whole thread is about is whether or not these Scriptures are saying that we can be lost after being saved.

Romans 1:22-31
If you want to understand this passage of scripture a bit better, start reading at Romans 1:18 and read until [at least] Romans 2:5 - all of the verses in between being taken together.

It is not at all about a saved individual becoming lost; rather, it is about a group of people - the human race as a whole - collectively - throughout the centuries and millenia - how we have given up God to seek after our own evil workings.

Secondarily, it is about (I believe) what people today like to call the 'deep state' - which is merely a culmination of the first general group into the second specific group. These people have nothing but evil in their hearts and minds and "drive" the world into chaos and confusion in order to accomplish their own nefarious agenda - the final result of which is what is referred to as the New World Order.

It is talking about those who willfully take part in the things listed in the verses and upon whom will fall the Wrath of God.

This is a "big picture in God's time frame" passage of scripture. It is looking at the whole forest and not just a single tree.
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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L

Let me use your parent/child senario.

The parents are the most Godly people you know truly saved and have eternal life. Their child on the other hand never accepted Christ in his lifetime. He is still the parent's child but his parents are in heaven. Where is the child?
Your example is not using the parent/child scenario in the same way that @Romans34 did - what he is saying is that - once you become a child of God, you cannot then "un-become" a child of God. In other words, "once a child of God always a child of God"...
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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The gospel is good news, and being saved from hell is what we are directed to preach.
So? Obviously that includes teaching about hell and what happens if someone refuses Christ.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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If you want to understand this passage of scripture a bit better, start reading at Romans 1:18 and read until [at least] Romans 2:5 - all of the verses in between being taken together.

It is not at all about a saved individual becoming lost; rather, it is about a group of people - the human race as a whole - collectively - throughout the centuries and millenia - how we have given up God to seek after our own evil workings.

Secondarily, it is about (I believe) what people today like to call the 'deep state' - which is merely a culmination of the first general group into the second specific group. These people have nothing but evil in their hearts and minds and "drive" the world into chaos and confusion in order to accomplish their own nefarious agenda - the final result of which is what is referred to as the New World Order.

It is talking about those who willfully take part in the things listed in the verses and upon whom will fall the Wrath of God.

This is a "big picture in God's time frame" passage of scripture. It is looking at the whole forest and not just a single tree.
In other words, it is referring to and talking about those who take pleasure in doing evil (and those who follow them) both on a 'general' human history scale as well as a [more] 'specific' end-times scale at the same time in two different 'levels' of understanding.

The people this passage is referring to - as individuals - have never been saved - nor will they ever be - they are the 'lost lost'.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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So? Obviously that includes teaching about hell and what happens if someone refuses Christ.
So, everyone is aware of their inevitable death, but not everyone knows that God has made a way to eternal life.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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So, everyone is aware of their inevitable death, but not everyone knows that God has made a way to eternal life.
Don't leave hell out of the teaching.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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Hi Everybody,

Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section. I am new here. The thing that brought me to a Christian forum is to explore some ideas regarding Christian faith and salvation. In particular, how do you know you are saved? Can you believe in God, believe that Jesus is the Messiah and be respectful towards God and yet not have your name in the book of life?

The thing that has me asking is, in the past I felt like my connection to God was validated through prayer. I would pray, then events would occur, usually never in the way I expected, that would bring me to what I believe was a God driven outcome.

Additionally, I felt like I saw the world in a way that only a Christian could and I thought that was through the eyes of the Holy Spirit.

Now, it seems like I pray and the answer is dead silence. I am not even sure the Spirit is there. Maybe my name is not in the book of life. I have been the grateful recipient of some wonderful gifts but God can bless the saved and unsaved as He chooses. Plus, I have shamefully shared some frustrated, angry words with God. I'm sure He wasn't too happy about that.

I have never been end times focused, beyond basic curiosity, but assumed the time of Christs return would be well past my lifetime. Given the state of current events, and I'm not just referring to war in Israel, I'm not so sure any more. Things seem different today, in a very bad way, and I have never felt so disconnected from God. Perhaps I have fallen from His favor or perhaps I was never really saved to begin with. I believe there will be lots of people who will be surprised to find out their name isn't on the list.

Interested in your thoughts on this topic. Thanks!
God says that faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word of God. (Rom. 10:17, Gal. 3:2-5) And that God will keep in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him Is. 26:3, Ph'p 4: 5-9, Rom. 12: 1-2).

The world, the flesh and the devil therefore work to keep us away from engaging with the scriptures and from spending time contemplating the beauty of the nature, character and ways of God. If they can achieve this we will lose faith in Jesus Christ and our mind will be in anxious turmoil.

When we are being formed in the womb our names are written in the book (Ps. 139:15-16) of the Lamb who from the foundation of the world was destined to be slain (Rev. 13:8) . They are blotted out if we die without being been reckoned righteous by faith. As long as we are breathing, our name is in His book and we have time to begin believing God and die believing God.

I know I an saved because of God's promise to save whosoever is believing on the Son. And I am believing on the Son right now. How do I know the promises of scripture are from God? One day I was meditating on the gnana yoga question, "Who am I?" when, eyes closed, I saw a vision of a man I identified in my mind as Jesus Christ. He was shining in white robes and standing on the globe of the earth, his arms outstretched among the stars, and He said, "I created all this. It belongs to Me."
After I came out of my trance, I said to God, "If Jesus is who the bible says he is and the Bible is the only book I need to study to understand how to live my life, that makes things very simple for me. So, if the first people I stay with when I go hitch-hiking are born again Christians, I will take that a sign from you that Jesus is who the bible says he is and the Bible is the only book I need to study to understand how to live my life. A few weeks later, on day two of my journey, I was invited by a pair of men I met quite by chance to stay overnight where they were being housed.... alng with 40 other born again Christians. A few days later I met one of those men again and something in our conversation reminded me of my previous prayer. So, O bought a bible and started to read it and attend a local church. I have been a Jesus follower ever since , even though it became clear over time that my understanding of the Bible on many points has often been diametrically opposed to that of many other Christians. And my own understanding has changed on many points as I have studied the word and heard other interpretations of passages. Fortunately we are not saved by believing in perfect doctrine, but by trusting in the perfect Saviour and Lord. and seeking to follow Him.
 
May 1, 2022
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You've misinterpreted my writing as calling anyone an oxymoron. Is it then possible you've also misinterpreted the verse as calling the saved lost?
That is twisting what I said just a little. If you are saved and you keep your faith and repented heart until the Day of Lord Eternal Life is yours to enjoy. But if you willfully sin and walk away from God and continued with an unrepented heart and die in that state, you are separated from God Eternally. Sin cannot abide in Heaven.

Revelation 21:27: "But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life."

This verse explicitly states that nothing unclean, including sin, will be allowed into heaven. Only those who are redeemed by Jesus Christ and have their names inscribed in the Lamb's book of life will be granted access to heaven's purity.
 

GRACE_ambassador

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