TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

“]I don't have a good explanation of Matthew 23:39 at present. “

If you read more of the context of what he’s saying leading to it it’s supporting that that generation ups suffer all the things he was telling them

“Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.




For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:31-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how trying to interpret verse 39 doesn’t erase what he’s said very clearly

“Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. “

now if I challenge you to explain this it doesn’t change anything he’s already made really clear there

“For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

I can’t now interpret that what he said about all those things happening in that generation is wrong because I say this verse proves it wrong lol

Where are those verses in Revelation quoted from in the OT?

No, it does not. It describes the entire earth, near the end of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27

Revelation 17:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of Jesus will be to avenge the deaths of the great tribulation martyrs in the fifth seal.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The seven seals are time of the end events. The martyred great tribulation saints who's souls are in the 5th seal is time of the end; martyred during the 42 months of the beast leading up to Jesus's return.

They will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6 to reign and rule with Jesus.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The seven seals are time of the end events. The martyred great tribulation saints who's souls are in the 5th seal is time of the end; martyred during the 42 months of the beast leading up to Jesus's return.

They will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6 to reign and rule with Jesus.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's an OT promise. And it was fulfilled many times. But the physical aspects of
this promise no longer exist. There is no such agreement that exists.

You should look a little closer at the 70 weeks. Daniel 9:24...70 weeks are determined upon Thy people, and upon Thy holy city, to finish the transgression...Can stop here a moment. What transgression? The filling of the cup of God's wrath and the outpouring of that wrath. Where? The holy city. Jerusalem perhaps? On whom? Thy people. Sounds like Israel.When was this aaccomplished? 70 AD.

So now we know the 70th week begins with the ministry of Jesus and ends with the destruction of Israel.

I asked for their OT quote. All the language in the book of Revelation is found in the OT.

Time of the end of what? If your answer is the time of the end of the old covenant then bingo

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah, the King of Israel. 4 days later, Jesus was crucified. The 7 year 70th week is still unfulfilled.

John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

This is getting quite silly.
Gen 15
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Jer 31~~
35This is what the LORD says,

He who gives the sun for light by day

And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,

Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—

The LORD of armies is His name:

36“If this fixed order departs

From Me,” declares the LORD,

“Then the descendants of Israel also will cease

To be a nation before Me forever.”

37This is what the LORD says:

“If the heavens above can be measured

And the foundations of the earth searched out below,

Then I will also reject all the descendants of Israel

For everything that they have done,” declares the LORD.

38“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead, to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40And the entire valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be uprooted or overthrown ever again.”

No. Time of the end of Satan and his angels activities into the affairs of man. Satan and his angels kingdom of mystery Babylon the great will be destroyed in the second half of the 7 years.

Satan, when cast down to earth in Revelation 12, will have a time, times, half times left. Which does not fit into you 1st century scenario.

No. Time of the end of Satan and his angels activities into the affairs of man. Satan and his angels kingdom of mystery Babylon the great will be destroyed in the second half of the 7 years.

Satan, when cast down to earth in Revelation 12, will have a time, times, half times left. Which does not fit into you 1st century scenario.

The end of time finds Satan being judged and cast into the lake of fire. But the end being spoken of elsewhere as the end of the age or other such phrases is referring to the end of the old covenant.

The end of time finds Satan being judged and cast into the lake of fire. But the end being spoken of elsewhere as [...]

News to me. Doesn't really affect the rapture doctrine one way or the other though.

I agree. Joshua 21:43...And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land He sware to give unto their fathers...Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

And you left out the most important part of Jeremiah 31...verses 31-34:
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant I made with your fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant I make with the house of Israel; After those days saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more.

This is the new covenant. After those days...refers to after the destruction of Israel. It was disingenuous to give the verses you did in Jeremiah 31 without first giving the reason for them.

No. Time of the end of Satan and his angels activities into the affairs of man. Satan and his angels kingdom of mystery Babylon the great will be destroyed in the second half of the 7 years.

Satan, when cast down to earth in Revelation 12, will have a time, times, half times left. Which does not fit into you 1st century scenario.

I'm not sure why you think anything I referred to was an attack against anyone's rapture doctrine. To me I was trying to convey that the people we were speaking of(ones in the 1st century who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place) also had followers in the 3rd and 4th century ad and they "corrected" the book we refer to as the Gospel of Matthew to reflect their belief. Afterwards Jerome obtained it and translated it into Latin, it was included into the LV and all our modern translations translated it into one translation or the other. The error is that they combined the gospel of the Hebrews(Ebionite) with the Gospel of Matthew(the Apostles autograph)...

I apologize for saying this so bluntly because many have never thought to read about the Q source or the M source discussion of Matthew most assume it to be good as gold. For the most part I notice that Jerome,Eusabius,Pamphilus ect. in the late 300ad's(380-400) were themselves not sure if the translations they obtained were correct(they corrected them by their own admittance in their own writings).. Not to drag the post on and on but we often hear of those disagreeing with Paul's writings(there's a thread about it here on CC contemplating what if his writings did not exist). The friction is not that Mark,Luke John to Revelation disagree with Paul it's that Mark,Luke John to Revelation disagree with Matthew(or the gospel of the Hebrews)...

Yes. Satan and his fallen angels are cast out after the Rev 12 war. Because of him accusing the brethren. Likely the newly raptured brethren of Rev 4 & 5!

Great relief and great rejoicing by the angelic host follows.
They are ALSO vexed and tormented by the presence of Satan just as we are. A lot of people do not realize this. That there is anguish and chaos in heaven much like there is on earth.

Not much longer though thank God.

Very interesting. I will have to look into that.

I do know that Rabbi Akiva altered the OT around 100AD from which we now have the Masoretic text. Fortunately we know where those modifications are.