Why free will?

So what your saying is that God's Grace is insuffence to give you the strength to stay out of sin ---and your saying that God still imputes sin on a believer and punishes them for that ----by cutting off the fellowship ----

I strongly disagree with your way of thinking -----

Free-will is like a fork in the road. Take the right fork and you're saved; take the wrong fork and you're lost.

God foreknows all things

So, I still think it doesn't make sense that God would repent of making man, if before He made them He knew the outcome of every choice of the men He would make. I don't think it is necessary to assume that God exhaustively knows the future, in order to also believe the Bible and the Gospel.

I agree with you that He knows all things, sometimes only seconds, sometimes only minutes, sometimes only days, sometimes months, or sometimes years, before they happen. And that some things that He has planned to do Himself from before creating the world, these He knew from the beginning, I don't agree with those who claim He knew before creation all things that would ever happen.

And nothing you cited says that God foreknows all things people will do before He makes them. Maybe you agree, but I can't tell from that particular post.

So, I still think it doesn't make sense that God would repent of making man, if before He made them He knew the outcome of every choice of the men He would make. I don't think it is necessary to assume that God exhaustively knows the future, in order to also believe the Bible and the Gospel.

I believe this verse explains God's emotion for us. It pained God, it grieved God, to see what His creation was doing. He's weeping.....Because He alone has to carry out the judgement of His creation. We get a true view of the personal God that He is. If He did not carry out His perfect judgement, there would be no bloodline for the Lord Jesus Christ.

And, I believe He knew it all and knows it all. He has not and will never learn anything. He knew every action and thought of every person who has lived or will live. Perfect knowledge. Omniscient~~All knowing.

Job 37~~16 Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?

Matt 6~~ 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Before we each were born, He knew us I believe.

I agree with you that He knows all things, sometimes only seconds, sometimes only minutes, sometimes only days, sometimes months, or sometimes years, before they happen. And that some things that He has planned to do Himself from before creating the world, these He knew from the beginning, I don't agree with those who claim He knew before creation all things that would ever happen.

And nothing you cited says that God foreknows all things people will do before He makes them. Maybe you agree, but I can't tell from that particular post.

So, I still think it doesn't make sense that God would repent of making man, if before He made them He knew the outcome of every choice of the men He would make..

What do you give the person who has everything? It's not easy. You can give maybe a better version of something they have already. It's not so easy. What do you give God, who could create anything He wanted any time, with just a word? There is nothing. So God created a being that was neutral, made in His image, but neither for God nor against Him.

God gave man a choice. God knew what would happen. He knew that Adam and Eve would commit high treason and ally themselves to God's prime enemy. God already had the plan of redemption in place. That plan was carried out by His Son, the Lord Jesus.

God did not compel Adam to rebel. That was Adam's choice. The Bible says that Adam knew what he was doing. He chose Satan's way rather than God's. If I were God (be glad that I'm not) I would have scratched Adam and Eve and started again. No way would I give over my son to death for the likes of rebellious Adam. But God is nothing like me. I was born like Adam, rebellious and living according to my own ideas and my own power. But my ideas were utterly selfish and I was powerless to overcome evil.

In His mercy, God once more showed me the consequences of my sinful nature. Then He offered me new life in Christ. I gladly accepted. I was saved because I was terrified of hell. But now I've come to know this gracious and merciful God that loves me in spite of all that I am and am not. Adam made a choice that affected the whole of humanity. Jesus made a choice that can save all humanity. But God will not force anyone to receive. What can you give God that He does not have? You. All of you.

Adam could have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever. God kind of puts us back in the garden where Jesus is the "tree of Life". Choose Him and live.

Sounds like you don’t think God knows all things I do believe he does

i never said it was essential to think it or you can’t believe the gospel though not sure where that came from .

but either way I think we agree that God gives us a choice whether he knows what that will be or not we have to choose

I found this to be a really interesting read thanks for taking big he time to share it . I think rewlly as your conclusion there he’s sort of always been saying that to choose life rather than death he sort of tells mankind the truth and this gives them a choice because Satan then tries to deceive them after they hear the truth like he did eve and her husband pertaining to the fruit

When we hear what god said will give us life and blessing Satan tries to stop us from believing it but offering alternative words

“if you eat the fruit you’ll surely die “ truth

“ you will not surely die , God knows it will make you wise like gods knowing both good and evil “ lie and distraction

this creates a choice for the person hey know both good and evil we can be tempted that becomes a choice do I stands on faith or do I follow the temptation ?

Even in Paul’s writing me when you really begin to read what he’s actually teaching the readers

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s always the truth and the deceptions if we choose the truth we’re going to be fine

Hi Gideon

Adam had freewill ... we don't. We ARE sinners and we all will die.

But God has determined and is determined to save mankind and He has the means to bring man to repentance as with the prodigal son ... if he had prospered he never would have returned. But in the way in which man is made when he was brought to dearth and despair his "freewill" was subdued and over ridden.

"Freewill" is an illusion, a hoax, it is the deception that Satan used to lure Adam into sin HOW?

By taking away the consequences, "you will not die."

"Human freewill" will always lead to bondage and death.

in other words the consequences balances out the supposed "freewill"

What now ? God gave man fee Will and told them about good and evil then says believe me and live pretty simple the entire Bible as we read it creates a choice to live some refuse to hear it so they actually have no choice

I don't think God needs to know everything that both does and does not exist to be all-knowing. God remembers all the past, and knows all the present. But the future does not exist to be known. So not knowing the future is not a lack of genuine knowledge. Otherwise God would need to have also to know everything that didn't, doesn't and will never exist and happen, on top of all that was, and is

God can imagine the future, as we can. But since our eventual future will depend on the free will desires and coming decisions of many free will agents, no one KNOWS from the distant past whqt will happen, not even God, unless He asserts His omnipotence to make some particular things happen that He has imagined and determined shall happen. There are some instances of that, which God makes happen to demonstrate His omnipotence and His ability to fulfil His promises, but most events God allows to play out, and we learn from the consequences of our choices.



I don't think I said you did. I'm just clarifying my position in distinction to the rest of the full range of perspectives out there. Simetimes it is not easy or possible to work out a poster's exact position on things from what they include in a post.



We do.

and what about those who God has closed their eyes that they see not and stopped up their ears that they hear not and hardened their heart lest they should repent and be healed?

The ONLY reason you and I hear is because God opened our ear ... saved by grace bro.

“and what about those who God has closed their eyes that they see not and stopped up their ears that they hear not and hardened their heart lest they should repent and be healed?”

a you mean those who he called to repentance and faith for ages who continually defiles everything he did and gave for them and rebelled against him and ignored all his warnings of judgement ? Who co tiny ally chose everything but him ? That is gonna leave a person blind when we reject what he’s telling us

“The ONLY reason you and I hear is because God opened our ear ...

did he open your ears to what he said though and say anyone who believes will have eternal life ?

naw not saved by grace , saved by grace through faith

You have merely restated the same irrational exhaustive foreknowledge oxymoron and asserted it to be justified by a plea to mystery. Why would it pain and grieve God to observe the corruption of mankind that He for centuries had known would certainly happen, because He chose that possible universe and history, which He then instigated intentionally, and He had already known before creation He would resolve by a flood and destruction of all but eight people and successfully move history onward toward the fulfilment of His foreknown middle and end.

I do believe God was actually grieved and regretted setting in motion the course of history that led to so deep and extensive person-on-person abuse through the misuse of the gift of free will. I think He was not expecting evil to spread so quickly and pervasively and perversely as it did as events unfolded. But being God, he was able to devise a viable plan forward toward His ultimate goal of producing a family conformed to the image of the Son.