the Sabbath

Do you believe that "justified" in James 2:24 means "accounted as righteous" or "shown to be righteous?"

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

Strongs definition - Pistis, pis'-tis; from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:—assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Believe - Greek word "Pisteuo" - pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv) (blueletterbible.org)

The Greek words for "pistis" (faith) and "pisteuo" (believe) are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of your salvation. Now this belief/faith does result in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief/faith.

You don't want to be standing in the group that says, Lord, Lord, didn't WE do many wonderful works (Matthew 7:22-23) but in the group that says, Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for my sins, were buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. I trust in YOU alone as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

All good stuff, but what you are describing is one way love and I don't believe we are saved by one way love. Jesus did all these things you described above for our salvation, but we must submit to His will Mat 7:21 and this can only be done by the power of Jesus Christ who changes us from the inside out so we want to obey Him and do whatever He asks through love and faith. We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21

Love is a two-way street. 1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us. Submitting to His will UNTO salvation in Matthew 7:21 is found in John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Not to be confused with submitting to His will AFTER salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

You conflate the two and the end result is salvation by works/works righteousness. So, you believe we are saved by obeying Him and doing whatever He asks? Have you flawlessly obeyed Him 100% of the time? Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time? (1 John 1:8-10) Is that what you are trusting in for salvation? Did you read the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector in Luke 18:9-14? What was the Pharisee trusting in? What was the tax collector trusting in? Which one of them exalted himself and which one of them humbled himself? Which one went back to his house justified?

We are saved by grace through faith. Those with faith keep God's law. Its the faith that saves us through the blood of Jesus, keeping God's law is a result of Christ's salvation in us. Rev 14:12

I have already answered what we should do if we slip and fall, but living in perpetual sin which is breaking God's law Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 is not the path to righteousness Romans 6:16 or reconciliation Rev 22:14

SDA's play the same game in salvation as other professing movements of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, not works, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine is a subtle mixture of law and grace. All you mainly talk about is obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) which makes it obvious what you are really trusting in for salvation. Christians are not under the law.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, (descriptive of believers) just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; (descriptive of unbelievers) for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Romans 6:16 is not talking about salvation by obedience/works. Those who promote salvation by works typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works.

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness.

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

Again, no one is saying we keep the law to be saved. You keeping adding your words and pretend they are mine when they are not.

All the law does is point out our sin Romans 7:7 its like a mirror and shows us our condition Romans 3:20 James 1:22-25 so we are not depending on our standard of righteousness but God's Psa 119:172 and the law points us to Jesus who has the solution when we sin, which requires repentance, which means a change in direction. Pro 28:13 The law does not save- I'll repeat that, the law does not save, if it did we could save ourselves and we can't. Only Jesus can save us though His blood. The law is kept as a result of our salvation in Jesus Christ. It shows we have placed our faith and trust in Him and He changes us from the inside out so we want to submit to Him and do everything He asks though love and faith. We are saved only through Jesus because ALL of us has sinned and deserve the death penalty, but He took that penalty for us, not so we can break His law and be sinners, so we also die of our sins with Him and are reborn in Him. Romans 6 If we are an enmity to God's law, its really not a good sign Mat 8:7-8 so there's ways we can test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. If we believe in Jesus we would have faith in what He asks, follow the example He left for us because we love Him so much.

Take care.

The devil is a liar, a big liar, and has become good at lying.

The devil is good at making half truths dig lies.

We are sinners and as sinners we are stuck with no hope. We can't overcome sin in our own efforts.

The devil states this point... we can't overcome sin... and then states that we shouldn't even try.
Because it is impossible to obey the law, don't even try.
The law can't be obeyed so the law has been removed,
Or because it is impossible just rely on God's mercy...

But this is not the truth..

As sinful humans we are lost. But that is why Jesus came to save us.

We are saved in Jesus... so we are saved from sin, not saved in sin..

By faith in Jesus we can be justified.
You talked about that above.. but how does this save us from ourselves, and the disobedient lifestyle.

By faith in Jesus we can overcome sin.
By faith in Jesus we can live as Jesus lived.

This is not what the devil wants you to believe because that will result in righteousness. No glory to us, it is done by Jesus living in us, sanctification. And when we overcome by faith in Jesus, this proves the devil wrong and is a witness for Jesus

If you tell yourself you can't obey and set your standard low, that is all you will know.

I agree that the righteousness of Jesus will perfectly cover us. But not everyone is given His righteousness.

Mat 7:23 KJV And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

and what did Jesus say right before this??

" only those who do the will of My Father in Heaven?

and what is the will of the Father? that one believes in the Son.

Psalms 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

A former member of Christian Chat who was a SDA basically said exactly what you just said above out of one side of his mouth, then out of the other side of his mouth said this below:

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Do you agree with his statement above in blue? That same SDA also promoted the teaching that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. Do you agree with that teaching as well?

Do you think we can worship other gods and be saved or take on the name of Christ but not live for Him and be saved and do these things without heartfelt repentance which means a change in heart and a change in direction. Are you teaching we can be saved in our sins and there is no change in us when we come to Jesus and submit to His will. What is the gospel message to you?

You seem like a nice fellow, but you are as slippery as an eel when it comes to answering a question with plain language.

I'm not teaching any of those things. Those who are saved have experienced repentance towards God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21) Those in Christ are a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9-10)

Now can you please answer my 2 questions from post #1,112.

So I am not allowed to ask questions to understand someone else perspective before answering?

The amount of name calling on this site makes me sad as it is called Christian Chat.

The gospel message is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

What is the gospel message to you? Is it the same message in blue that I cited in post #1,112?

So you answered your own question.

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30. The opposite of God's righteousness Psa 119:172

The gospel message is we have good news in our salvation in Jesus Christ- Salvation from what? Sin. Sin is what? Breaking God's law. 1 John 3:4 Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 So if we have not been reborn in Christ we will not be saved. Those who don't subject themselves to God's law is called lost in scripture Romans 8:4-8 Mat 5:19 1 John 2:4 Rev 22:15 Mat 7:23 You can't separate the 10 commandments from the everlasting gospel message. Which again is not how we are saved- the law has it purpose to reveal our condition and so we depend on God's righteousness Psa 119:172 and need for Jesus for His forgiveness, mercy and grace. If we cover our sins and not forsake them, we will not prosper Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30

In regard to Sunday being the mark of the beast I will repeat what I posted previously. Right now, we have freedom of religion, so the mark of the beast is not here yet, but many are not paying attention to what is happening in the government where they are trying to change the constitution to remove separation of State and Church. I believe we are very close to the return of Jesus Christ.

What I posted previously....

Someone had mentioned EGW and her comments on that the Sabbath shined brighter than all of the other commandments. I was listening to Walter Veith who explained in detail why (better than I do) and it makes perfect sense.

The reason the Sabbath shines brighter it is the only commandment that reveals the Author of God's law the Ten Commandments and only law that reveals the Authority and Creator over all heaven and earth. Its the commandment that contains the seal of God.

Without the power of God, we could never obey God's commandments. Removing the one commandment that reveals the Author, the Authority and the Seal the rest of the law is useless and without His power and no one could keep.

Can you imagine having a set of laws that congress passes into government and is not signed by the President, would be useless. The Sabbath is the one commandments that shows God's Authority which leads to the controversy.

Is our allegiance with the authority of God who created heaven and earth or to the one who changed times and laws Dan 7:25 we are warned about and receive their mark of their authority. No wonder there is so much attack on the Sabbath commandment as it all comes down to the authority of who we worship. Someone is trying to take the place of God Isa 14:14 who is working through an alternate system Revelation 13:4 that the whole world follows when they follow their teachings over God's.

Their authority

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

God's Authority

Psa 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.


Their authority

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

God's Authority

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Their mark

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

God's Seal

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Sabbath contains the three elements of a seal:
Name: Lord thy God
Title: Creator
Territory: Heaven and Earth

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’


Their authority

Tradition, not Scripture, is the rock on which the church of Jesus Christ is built.
—Adrien Nampon, Catholic Doctrine as Defined by the Council of Trent, p. 157

God's Authority

And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men


At the end it will come down to our worship. In vain by keeping the traditions of man or following God and obeying His commandments just the way He wrote and spoke and no one has Authority over God.

Rev 14: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Or the antidote we can obey God which is true worship.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I'm expecting a Yes or No answer to my questions from post #1,112.

I’m sorry you view my observation as “name calling.” Many of your replies are completely irrelevant to one’s query.