Predestination is misunderstood...

They dont believe because Christ didnt die for them as He did His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Believing in Christ comes with the fact He died for you. So if one never believes, its because He never died for them taking away their sins. See His Death takes away sin and its awful consequences 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Unbelief is the consequences of sin

Are you even "AWARE" that Jesus is talking to the Jews here?

Who Paul said are under this condition:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”

They can't believe because God placed a condition on them. It has NOTHING to do with anything you said at all!!

You can't fool no one. He died for them but they are under a condition and cannot believe yet.

I don't reject the cross. I don't think I can save myself from anything without God's grace and power. You are not justified by being redeemed.
You were redeemed along with every other soul that ever lived by the atonement offered by Jesus at Calvary for the sins of the world, when Jesus ransomed you and bought you with His blood. This was before you believed in Him.
You are justified by putting faith in Jesus. when you believe in His resurrection from the dead and profess Him Lord.
You are being saved by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit our Lord gives to those who put their trust in Him.

Because eternal (aeonous) life is a quality of relationship with the Father and Jesus Christ. So, if you lose that quality of relationship, you have lost what Jesus calls aeonous life in John 17:3.

this not something I like to say about anyone but brother your wasting your time,.hes indoctrinated to the core.

Don't let him bother your feelings.

Just brush your feet.

Hes evil

It seems, and I do not want to think I have complete understanding here but just good observational skills but when I think of Calvinist and those who are not Calvinist definitions of God's True Love. This is what I see.

My interpretation of God's True Love = He died for every human being ever conceived.

My interpretation of Calvinists definition of God's True Love = He, on purpose, for His Sovereign Glory, sent 3/4 of everyone He created to an eternal hell.

Thank You Sir!

He isn't bothering me at all and I understand what you're saying. But every time he twists scripture it's funny to show him we know what he is doing. And with as many people watching and reading who never post, they get to see what a deceitful person he is and those like him are

Don't let Everlasting Grace get you on the defensive with accusations that do not fit the way you have been expressing yourself here.


grace and peace. Tell us.. The Greek tense for "You have been Saved."

What verse is this on

when you pray God knows what you need before you ask him.

I agree. It's disturbing that Calvinists think this way about God. I actually know some Christians who don't even think Calvinists are Christian because they see Calvinists as worshipping a different Jesus that doesn't love the whole world. I know Calvinists though in my own real life and they're okay. I think the ones here are just trolling as Calvinists though. They are really over the top here. So much so it's hard to be believe they're real Calvinists.


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Satan did not know God as his savior. The lengths you go!

When you claim they CAN fall away if they stop believing, that exactly what your saying./


He was just as saved the moment God declare him righteous as he will the day he is ressurected.


Actually they do not support you either.

Heb 10 is about people who have not yet come to saving faith. Who willfully sin because they have not come to Christ and taken the next step.

Vs 39 also shows the author is not talking to true believers

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.


Jesus said we will NEVER die in John 6.

He said in John 3 we will never die 9perish) but we have eternal life (literally will live forever)

so again, Your attempt to use languages to support your view is flawed

i would try not to be to much of a scholar.. its hurting your case

I like what you have said here. It gives me much to think about. I definitely believe there's a difference in behavior between online and in person. That would be something if they were just actually being trolls here rather than being sincere about their core beliefs. Some very good insight you have shared. Thank You!

Joh 17:7 does not mention Knowing God and Jesus as Saviour

Its all new to me what I've learned in the last 4 weeks here about calvinism.

But I've asked all the right questions towards calvinism and God's character and Gods wisdom given to me by God to ask them, not just him.

All I've had spewed back at me is ignorance and a hardened heart, im sure its of the devil

And not one of my hundreds of insights has been acknowledged.

I'm not sure how many I've asked but in access of a hundred times I've seeked the lord with what there saying and I get a different answer of the lord

The way in which I witnessed his behaviour in another thread was nothing short of evil.

I don't like to judge people like and say there evil but he is acting evil.

And from what I've learned of other people holding to this tulip doctrine is nothing short of evil to

It feals like I've been talking to the devil talking to people holding to this tulip doctrine.

For goodness sake it was created 500 years ago by what looks to be somebody who was also evil also..

The damage it's done to people is very dangerous. I just can't break through to them.

I also have some of Charles Spurgeon's books and he's a Calvinist. He spreads the gospel and encourages others Christians to do so because he believes God hasn't told us who the elect are. He doesn't act like any of these Calvinist trolls in this forum though.


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I have not said, "God saves a person KNOWING that person will fall away back to unbelief."

Which text reference?

The ones who have listened to the father.

Or theese ones
Ezekiel 18:27

King James Version



27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Sorry but this verse is unrelated, for many reasons. For a start, it's speaking in the past tense. Like someone telling the story of what they observed. It says "when the wicked man" and not "if the wicked man" so you lost the plot there again as you do every other time.

Please don't put your words in Gods mouth, He never said "the ones who listened to the Father".

Every time you add and take away from Gods perfect Word, you become more and more confused and further from the truth.