Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,215
6,610
113
62
The supposed contradiction is that of your vivid imagination.

BTW.....conflict/paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional space. You know.....where the Trinity resides?
You might want to look into that.
I'll get right on this too.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
13,558
113
I have the ability to manage my whole day. I can make every choice and decision. Or, I can walk in the Spirit and let God manage my whole day, and He can make every decision. Was Jesus operating in His strength and power, or the strength and power of the Spirit?
His power is the power of the Holy Spirit, there is only one God ;)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
And yet, 3 distinct persons, each able in and of Themselves to exercise that power or withhold it's exercise.
In flawless perfect harmony and coordination.

Which is exactly the case at the incarnation. Whatever power Jesus exercised or restrained, whatever will was being exerted, it was all sanctioned by the Trinity in eternity past.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,215
6,610
113
62
In flawless perfect harmony and coordination.

Which is exactly the case at the incarnation. Whatever power Jesus exercised or restrained, whatever will was being exerted, it was all sanctioned by the Trinity in eternity past.
No one has argued against this point.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
No one has argued against this point.
Right. Which makes the other arguments regarding the power and will of Jesus at the incarnation moot.

Jesus Himself was completely in control of His own birth. And babyhood. The works.
And was fully omnipotent God in the womb.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,215
6,610
113
62
Right. Which makes the other arguments regarding the power and will of Jesus at the incarnation moot.

Jesus Himself was completely in control of His own birth. And babyhood. The works.
And was fully omnipotent God in the womb.
Well that's the spur under the saddle, isn't it? Jesus, not being the Holy Spirit, was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
If you actually believe that Jesus was merely a man, then I say that your salvation is in dire jeopardy. And that you are spreading devastating heresy.
Honestly c'mon. How many times must I say Jesus is the God/man? Fully God, fully man having two natures, eternally begotten of the Father.

It's your misunderstanding of what I'm saying that is spreading heresy, so cut it out.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
Absolute nonsense. He used His own power and authority as much as the Father and Spirit used theirs.

God is One in power and purpose.

Oh yea......Jesus simply DECLARING that he was going to resurrect Himself is proof positive of his eternal omnipotence.
Unless of course God aka YHVH aka Christ Jesus is impotently bragging and actually could not accomplish it.
Christ could do what He did during His time on Earth because the Father gave Him the authority and power to do it.

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
That's exactly what I thought you said, but it's only half true. The other half of it is Jesus laid it aside and took it back up whenever He saw fit. And that was many times during His time on earth.

So, you were half right. The biblical fact of the matter is, Jesus was always fully man and fully God but He didn't use His God powers to numb the pain He had to suffer in order to pay the penalty for the sins of Gods elect. He also didn't use His God powers to resist the temptation to sin.

As I said before, He did use His power in many other instances, not only to perform miracles but also in teaching and preaching and perceiving what others were thinking. So it could be said that He used His God power about 50% of the time and He acted as an ordinary man during the other 50% of the time so it was a fairly even mix.

Now if you don't agree, you will need to provide scripture to support your protest. Private opinions will be thrown out of court.
Was that an apology?

I have provided scripture showing the Son can do nothing on His own authority. You have provided nothing but your opinion.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
Has God asked us to be omniscient or omnipotent?
He has only asked us to love mercy, to do justly, and to walk humbly before Him.

it isn't our responsibility to die for the sins of the world or to perform all the signs that signify the Messiah; not every thing He did and does is for us to follow.

John 13:36​
Simon Peter said to Him,
"Lord, where are You going?"
Jesus answered him,
"Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."
But you keep insisting Christ lived the life he lived because He is God. He performed miracles because He is God. He wasn't tempted because He is God. He could die on a Cross because He is God. He could raise Himself from death because He is God.

Now if you are clever you will notice I threw in temptation and death (which you have not mentioned) because we know God cannot be tempted or die. But I did so to show you how baseless your argument is. Christ performed miracles and raised Himself from the dead because He was given the authority (and with authority comes power) to do so. Scripture tells us this time and time again.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
that position can't answer these questions:

why does He never once say "thus saith the LORD"?

why does He always say "Amen Amen I say unto you"?
Do you not understand what it is to have authority?

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Christ performed miracles and raised Himself from the dead because He was given the authority (and with authority comes power) to do so. Scripture tells us this time and time again.
Prove it.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Honestly c'mon. How many times must I say Jesus is the God/man? Fully God, fully man having two natures, eternally begotten of the Father.

It's your misunderstanding of what I'm saying that is spreading heresy, so cut it out.
Heresy is declaring that the I AM of the OT became the I AM NOT ANYMORE during the incarnation.
And then somehow Jesus gets a booster shot of divinity after the resurrection.

Preposterous on every level.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,215
6,610
113
62
Well that's the spur under the saddle, isn't it? Jesus, not being the Holy Spirit, was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
Guess I should have said burr and not spur, or just gone with the ole rattlesnake in the boot cliche.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
937
194
43
67
Australia
Heresy is declaring that the I AM of the OT became the I AM NOT ANYMORE during the incarnation.
And then somehow Jesus gets a booster shot of divinity after the resurrection.

Preposterous on every level.
Really? You continue to misrepresent what I say even after I have corrected you?

So rude!

Have a nice day. :)