Loss of salvation???

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homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#101
Oct 24, 2012
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#101
Edify said:
Luke 8:13
New International Version
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

New Living Translation
The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don’t have deep roots, they believe for a while, then they fall away when they face temptation.

English Standard Version
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away

King James Bible
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

New King James Version
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

New American Standard Bible
Those on the rocky soil are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and yet these do not have a firm root; they believe for a while, and in a time of temptation they fall away.

They believe for a while (salvation) but temptation overwhelms them(fall away).
Click to expand...

yes. be truth to us the flesh and blood. I tell you what, you get a rake, I will get a shovel, and dig deep in the dirt, for us all, includes me. you rake over the seeds, to be planted deep. to become new, fertilized by God, born again by God, in love and mercy to all
1 Cor 15


1 Corinthians 15:12-23

Authorized (King James) Version

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 and if Christ be not risen, then isour preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, andbecome the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

It is, the resurrected Christ that saves us, y'all. The death was for, to get and remain reconciled to God Father of Jesus, forever
Beleive God, God has reconciled you too. (2 Cor 5:17-20) Then ask in trust to get given the new life in the risen Son offered you and see you become new, thank you
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#102
Feb 12, 2024
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Darwin, NT
#102
Edify said:
They believe for a while (salvation) but temptation overwhelms them(fall away).
Click to expand...
You assume they fall away from salvation but many Christians fail to grow in faith. Believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation but there is more to learn beyond the initial message of the Gospel. Many do not go on to learn beyond the elementary doctrines and fall from grace. The Lord cannot work His good works in such as these.

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

Our salvation is God dependent, not man dependent.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#103
Oct 24, 2012
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#103
sawdust said:
You assume they fall away from salvation but many Christians fail to grow in faith. Believing the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation but there is more to learn beyond the initial message of the Gospel. Many do not go on to learn beyond the elementary doctrines and fall from grace. The Lord cannot work His good works in such as these.

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

Our salvation is God dependent, not man dependent.
Click to expand...
Father, please see me as not having the wrong motive to be saved by you, in needs I see I want here on earth.
Hebrews 6:3 as God permits for us to grow up, it is up to you Father, I want to be mature in love and mercy too as Son did for us, Thank You
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#104
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#104
gratefuloneson said:
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
Click to expand...
I believe I was pardoned once for all time, we suffer loss when we continue in sin, we risk even death but damnation never.

In my personal walk and friendship with God I am constantly repenting and asking forgiveness.

Love the Lord, treasure His companionship. That is the path to victory.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#106
Oct 24, 2012
15,426
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#106
Evmur said:
I believe I was pardoned once for all time, we suffer loss when we continue in sin, we risk even death but damnation never.

In my personal walk and friendship with God I am constantly repenting and asking forgiveness.

Love the Lord, treasure His companionship. That is the path to victory.
Click to expand...
For me, I am trusting God forgave me through Son on the cross he went to, to save us, after his death took away sin once for all (John 1:29)(Hebrews 10:10-12). Jesus, by that crucifixion took away all the nasty nines and dirty dozen first, from Father's sight for us, to be able to enter with thanksgiving and praise (Psalm 100:4), to see all sin taken away (psalm 103:12) but "Unbelief to what is done by Son for them. To give new life in his resurrected life to all that will choose willingly to believe God in this done work of Son for them. Then the new person begins, as has in you. Except from the view I am given. I see to not ask for anymore forgiveness, since by God I am forgiven in Son, the last sacrifice, shedding of blood it is done. (John 19:30) Also the entire world of people (1 John 2:1-4) New life is in the risen Christ (Hebrews 9:14-17)
then one walks new in love and mercy given them to all. No more under Law to do, now in grace that is sufficient ( 2 Cor 12:7-10) to learn how to walk new from God (Holy Spirit) Read the word to know God, our only hope of glory for me at least. and not self or anyone else. (Phil 3)
Now, since "I" as all have sinned and continue in sin after belief to the King, not wanting to sin again, yet do and have why?
Romans 6.7.8 reveals this to us (me, at least) all to see truth over that error of this world's teachings in the clergy to us under Law. Those that are under Law, continue in sin (hiding it) are not yet seeing the new life God Father gives them, to be free in and choose to not sin and are not even worried over it anymore
I accept by God as 100% forgiven, forever by God through Son (Eph 1:13, 6-7)
To see the Law as good, yet no flesh can do it perfect ever. seeing what under Law does and has done to me personally, when it tries to get me in it, Sin having occasion by the command causes people to do it anyway. I sinned, all the more than did, when I was not under Law. Then, by Religion, I got put under Law of God, not through Son, who seriously did take sin away for us to get given the new life in his risen life given us from Abba, Father. Jesus, on that cross took away the sin first at that cross once for everyone to be given new life of his resurrection for you, me and all the world. Believe God, receive from God and see new, standing in this freedom given by God to you too
Hebrews 4 Rest my friend in the risen Christ
Since you have sinned again, turn to God in thanksgiving and praise to God in that sin remains forgiven, thanks to Jesus for you, by God to you, before you can even blink an eye, God remains faithful, we are not. As you know this truth too.
Then ask God, not me or others or the clergy here on earth. Ask God personally from within you.
You will see the new life of the risen Son given to you, through you in the risen Son taking it away (Taken away) and you (Hebrews 5:12-Chapter 6) will remain humble in it, seeing self getting peeled off like a
onion, when hit the center it is a sweet smell. A lot of crying first though
Hope you see, trusting God will reveal whatever is needed to be revealed to you in your growing in grace
unto maturity
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#107
Aug 22, 2014
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#107
Edify said:
Just as we chose christ for salvation, we can choose to leave Him.
It's a life of believing faith till the end.
Matt 24:9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures(by grace thru faith) to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Click to expand...
Look I know I am a strait shooter and come across strong sometimes, but this is the same way I thought of it before, and I was wrong.

First the truth is that choice you made to follow Jesus wasn't what saved you, I'd argue that you get no credit what so ever for it, outside of His power you'd have NEVER made that choice. (I mean generally, I mean "I" didn't make the choice)
This was the biggest sticking point for me too, I couldn't reconcile having free will and freely choosing Jesus, being born again and now He takes my free will? I come in free, but am made a slave? I thought the same as you are saying here. It made no sense to me.

You know what I had wrong? I thought I was free at some point. We have a will, we have choice, the Bible is clear on these things, but the truth is it's NEVER free. Jesus tells us as plain as day that we are slaves, either slaves of sin, or slaves of righteousness, we never ever ever have a "free" will. Paul tells us that NO ONE seeks for God, that we are all wicked and fall short, and without the power of our God drawing us in, none would ever even look for God.

That's the biggest point and also why I say things like "you're trying to take credit for the glory that belongs to Him", when people try to sell this "you can lose salvation" deception.

Also when the truth about what exactly takes place when we are born again really flies in the face of exactly what takes place. When we are "dead in our sin", this means the spirit we were created to have is dead and we are born disconnected from God. When God draws us in and grants us repentance this is the moment when God, the Creator of ALL performs one of the greatest miracles of all time and by Jesus blood forgives us of all our sin and applies Jesus righteousness to us, this allows Him to resurrect our dead spirit and reconciles it to His Spirit opening our eyes, lifting the veil, and making us ALL NEW MEN, now empowered by His Spirit to live in a way pleasing to Him.

To you and anyone else that likes to teach that a person can "decide" to walk away from this, that God just set's us up to "maybe be saved", that we can be truly born again and then be "unborn" again, I don't believe that can happen any more than you can be "unborn" the natural way either. It just doesn't work that way. So everyone that is saved this way in truth will be the one that endures to the end. Nothing in here says those who are saved might not endure to the end, only that those who do are saved. You can think it means you can lose salvation, but it does NOT say that.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#108
Feb 22, 2021
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#108
loss of salvation, or Eternal Security?

Well, precious friends, unless "Rightly Divided" according to
2 Timothy 2:15 AV, the Confusion will probably continue -
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

In God's Context of prophecy / covenants / law for Israel,
we see no osas for them, eh? Because of:

1) "show works meet for repentance" (Matthew 3:8), because,
+
2) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)​
+
3) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Matthew 19:17)
+
4) "one thing thou lackest...sell All / take up cross / follow Jesus"
(Mark 10:17-23)​
+
5) "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved"
(Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13 AV)​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

However, under God's Other Context of Mystery / Grace for
The Body Of Christ, we do see:

A Multitude of Scriptural Evidence of God's Eternal Life For us:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus, it behooves us to teach new [ and probably Confused ] babes
In Christ the above, and:

It is Better to "serve God out of love" [ knowing and Thanking Him
we have Eternal Life ]

rather than "serving God out of fear" [ of losing 'temporary' life ], eh?:

"God hath not Given us the spirit of fear, but of power,​
and of love, and of a sound mind" (2 Timothy 1:7 AV)​
​
Amen.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#109
Jan 27, 2021
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#109
Jimbone said:
(I mean generally, I mean "I" didn't make the choice)
Click to expand...
Deuteronomy 30:19
English Standard Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
If those in the old covenant chose, how much more christians under a better covenant with better promises?

Jimbone said:
You know what I had wrong? I thought I was free at some point.
Click to expand...
John 8:36
New American Standard Bible
So if the Son sets you free, you really will be free.

Jimbone said:
That's the biggest point and also why I say things like "you're trying to take credit for the glory that belongs to Him", when people try to sell this "you can lose salvation" deception.
Click to expand...
If I can choose to draw near, then I can also choose to leave.

Jimbone said:
You can think it means you can lose salvation, but it does NOT say that.
Click to expand...
Surely you're not one of those people that thinks sinners who were never close to God can actually fall away from Him?
All these scriptures are for the churches, not sinners.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#110
Oct 24, 2012
15,426
203
63
#110
GRACE_ambassador said:
loss of salvation, or Eternal Security?

Well, precious friends, unless "Rightly Divided" according to
2 Timothy 2:15 AV, the Confusion will probably continue -
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified:

In God's Context of prophecy / covenants / law for Israel,
we see no osas for them, eh? Because of:

1) "show works meet for repentance" (Matthew 3:8), because,
+
2) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)​
+
3) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Matthew 19:17)
+
4) "one thing thou lackest...sell All / take up cross / follow Jesus"
(Mark 10:17-23)​
+
5) "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved"
(Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13 AV)​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

However, under God's Other Context of Mystery / Grace for
The Body Of Christ, we do see:

A Multitude of Scriptural Evidence of God's Eternal Life For us:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus, it behooves us to teach new [ and probably Confused ] babes
In Christ the above, and:

It is Better to "serve God out of love" [ knowing and Thanking Him
we have Eternal Life ]

rather than "serving God out of fear" [ of losing 'temporary' life ], eh?:

"God hath not Given us the spirit of fear, but of power,​
and of love, and of a sound mind" (2 Timothy 1:7 AV)​
​
Amen.
Click to expand...
Amen Back to you too, I got thought of what you wrote about

1) "show works meet for repentance" (Matthew 3:8), because,

The true works that get shown are God's Done work of Son, Jesus, through the born again believers, not any self work at all. No flesh work will ever please God

2) "to the twelve tribes of Israel," "faith Without works is dead"
(James 1:1, 2:17,26)​
​
no Faith work is dead work, no flesh can please God,ever Only God's done work of Son pleased God for us to be given this to do by Faith, Love and trust to, God's done work getting put through us. Luke 21:14-15
​
3) "keep the commandments" to "enter life" (Matthew 19:17)

Good Luck, fail in one, failed in all under Law no one gets in under Law, otherwise, Son went to that cross in Vain and cannot flow through our veins. I failed, Fail! Born new by God in risen Son, thank you

Under Law, to get in, I would have to become a torso, What? Gouge out eye, cut off hand. Better for part of me to go to Heaven than all of me enter Hell?

4) "one thing thou lackest...sell All / take up cross / follow Jesus"
(Mark 10:17-23)​
​
Give your all as in ,your entire being to God. Be available to God, is what is meant by the saying to that rich man in Matt 19. Be willing, which most do not get or fathom, unless are born again by God y'all​
It is impossible too enter in of any self works.​
What is impossible for men is possible with God, the Father of Jesus the Son for us, in his risen Life now.​

Luke 21:1-4

Authorized (King James) Version

21 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 for all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

5) "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved"
(Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13 AV)​
​
I believe God took away sin in his one time death (John 1:29) for us all to believe it and get born new by Father to us. Those that see they need the new life in the risen Son to lead them and believe God, get it from Father, as Father gives this free to all that will not quit belief, and have n o other motive than tp be with Father and Son. No worries over this life here is what gets taught, a t least to me, thanks again​
​
 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#111
Feb 12, 2024
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Darwin, NT
#111
Edify said:
If I can choose to draw near, then I can also choose to leave.
Click to expand...
You can choose to fail in the new life God has given you but you cannot undo that life and make it as if you do not have it. What God has made alive, stays alive.
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#112
Mar 5, 2018
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#112
Edify said:
They believe for a while (salvation) ...
Click to expand...
The seed is the word of God. The word of God contains both the law and the gospel. The law doesn't save; it only leads to salvation.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#113
Aug 22, 2014
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#113
Edify said:
Deuteronomy 30:19
English Standard Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
If those in the old covenant chose, how much more christians under a better covenant with better promises?


John 8:36
New American Standard Bible
So if the Son sets you free, you really will be free.


If I can choose to draw near, then I can also choose to leave.


Surely you're not one of those people that thinks sinners who were never close to God can actually fall away from Him?
All these scriptures are for the churches, not sinners.
Click to expand...
Man, you must not really read what I write. I don't even know how to respond to this because it has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything I said. You just refuse to engage honestly in good faith with the things I'm saying. All I can conclude is that there's no point in continuing for no reason. I hope you have a great day.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#114
Dec 18, 2021
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#114
JohnRH said:
The seed is the word of God. The word of God contains both the law and the gospel. The law doesn't save; it only leads to salvation.
Click to expand...
How does it lead? Can someone be saved never knowing the law?
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#115
Oct 24, 2012
15,426
203
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#115
Edify said:
If I can choose to draw near, then I can also choose to leave.
Click to expand...
Why, would anyone who is given the new from God, that asked God for it ever leave it, not yet seeing it, even in adversities.
For me, I say this, because I went through death in the hospital with Foreigner's Gang Green. This is a urinary tract infection, went through it in November 2012. I still did not deny God and still see to not to deny God. I went through a wheelchair, a cane a walker, pain meds and homelessness. Stayed in belief, stand in belief.
Present, God has taken all that out of the way. Made a way for my wife and I to get through it, in rest to God, in thankfulness to God even in adversities.
We went through the pain of it all, and God does just loves us all. Go through it, willingly!
Man says show me as they did that at Jesus on that cross.
If you are the Messiah, come on off of it and we shall believe you.

Wow, woe is me as Jesus had to go through it in order to reconcile us all as forgiven, which is not new life y'all. His risen Life is where the new life offered is at for us to be given free of charge and cannot be worked for it. That is done, he is risen and time to stand in belief to see it as real, even if in adversities still.

Man said to God, show me and I will believe you, save your own life.
God says, believe me and I will show you. Seeing, the book of Job as personal, hope you might also.
A flower that is beautiful, had to first die in the ground in Fertilizer, (Garbage) before any new life could be seen from it, How beautiful, here today, gone tomorrow
Be willing to get planted as dead to be alive to God above everything you see here in this life here that you Will one day die to also
Romans 6:1-12, there is a life after death, I choose to be with God, that sent Son to save me and hope everyone else does too, thank you
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#116
Oct 24, 2012
15,426
203
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#116
sawdust said:
You can choose to fail in the new life God has given you but you cannot undo that life and make it as if you do not have it. What God has made alive, stays alive.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 1:14
His presence within us is God’s guarantee that he really will give us all that he promised; and the Spirit’s sealupon us means that God has already purchased us and that he guarantees to bring us to himself. This is just one more reason for us to praise our glorious God.

Accepted by God, sealed by God, forgiven, reconciled by God, amazing grace given free of charge as this world continues to charge, God does not and is not condemning any one presently in Risen Son, time to stand in belief to risen Son for you too, while going through adversities
Notice this too. Look up at the sky, that to this day has never once gotten harmed over any troubles that have gone on here on earth. And God's Kingdom is not of this earth.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#118
Dec 18, 2021
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#118
JohnRH said:
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:24 (KJV)
Click to expand...
I asked if someone can be saved and not know the law

yes the law was used and supposed to lead them to christ.. But can we find God apart from the law
 
D

dlw

Member
#119
Aug 29, 2021
63
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#119
homwardbound said:
For me, I am trusting God forgave me through Son on the cross he went to, to save us, after his death took away sin once for all (John 1:29)(Hebrews 10:10-12). Jesus, by that crucifixion took away all the nasty nines and dirty dozen first, from Father's sight for us, to be able to enter with thanksgiving and praise (Psalm 100:4), to see all sin taken away (psalm 103:12) but "Unbelief to what is done by Son for them. To give new life in his resurrected life to all that will choose willingly to believe God in this done work of Son for them. Then the new person begins, as has in you. Except from the view I am given. I see to not ask for anymore forgiveness, since by God I am forgiven in Son, the last sacrifice, shedding of blood it is done. (John 19:30) Also the entire world of people (1 John 2:1-4) New life is in the risen Christ (Hebrews 9:14-17)
then one walks new in love and mercy given them to all. No more under Law to do, now in grace that is sufficient ( 2 Cor 12:7-10) to learn how to walk new from God (Holy Spirit) Read the word to know God, our only hope of glory for me at least. and not self or anyone else. (Phil 3)
Now, since "I" as all have sinned and continue in sin after belief to the King, not wanting to sin again, yet do and have why?
Romans 6.7.8 reveals this to us (me, at least) all to see truth over that error of this world's teachings in the clergy to us under Law. Those that are under Law, continue in sin (hiding it) are not yet seeing the new life God Father gives them, to be free in and choose to not sin and are not even worried over it anymore
I accept by God as 100% forgiven, forever by God through Son (Eph 1:13, 6-7)
To see the Law as good, yet no flesh can do it perfect ever. seeing what under Law does and has done to me personally, when it tries to get me in it, Sin having occasion by the command causes people to do it anyway. I sinned, all the more than did, when I was not under Law. Then, by Religion, I got put under Law of God, not through Son, who seriously did take sin away for us to get given the new life in his risen life given us from Abba, Father. Jesus, on that cross took away the sin first at that cross once for everyone to be given new life of his resurrection for you, me and all the world. Believe God, receive from God and see new, standing in this freedom given by God to you too
Hebrews 4 Rest my friend in the risen Christ
Since you have sinned again, turn to God in thanksgiving and praise to God in that sin remains forgiven, thanks to Jesus for you, by God to you, before you can even blink an eye, God remains faithful, we are not. As you know this truth too.
Then ask God, not me or others or the clergy here on earth. Ask God personally from within you.
You will see the new life of the risen Son given to you, through you in the risen Son taking it away (Taken away) and you (Hebrews 5:12-Chapter 6) will remain humble in it, seeing self getting peeled off like a
onion, when hit the center it is a sweet smell. A lot of crying first though
Hope you see, trusting God will reveal whatever is needed to be revealed to you in your growing in grace
unto maturity
Click to expand...
Amen
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#120
Mar 5, 2018
551
274
63
#120
Everlasting-Grace said:
I asked if someone can be saved and not know the law

yes the law was used and supposed to lead them to christ.. But can we find God apart from the law
Click to expand...
It would appear that there isn't anyone who doesn't know the law:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death ... Romans 1:32 (KJV)
 
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