Loss of salvation???

[Everlasting-Grace]

A lot of people knows Paul's gospels but do not know the Gospel of Jesus which was to announce the Kingdom of Heaven and repentance from sin as defined by the commandments given to all, not only the Jews. It is why Jesus asked his disciples to preach the good news and teach everything he taught them to the rest of the world to everyone gentiles and Jews.

They are the same gospel.

They are not different..

 

[BillyBob]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It's never too late to seek forgiveness!

 

[Magenta]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him,[d] saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It's never too late to seek forgiveness!

from Deuteronomy 4:29-31 and Isaiah 55:7

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: loss of salvation?

1) There Is A BIG Difference between The Relationship God Establishes
With us, and the fellowship we should have with Him: God's Simple Will!

2) God Has A Vast Multitude Of Plain and Clear Scriptures For The
Everlasting Relationship That He Establishes With His Own children:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

3) Grace, Peace, Mercy And Love to all precious friends...

Amen.

 

[Jimbone]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Nope, you cannot thwart the power of God. God saves us, God keeps us, and God doesn't make mistakes. Anyone truly saved is completely discounting and spitting on Gods power if they believe it's weak enough we could walk away from it. When we are saved our spirit is resurrected and reconnected to God. Who is it that can separate us again? If you walk away from Jesus you were NEVER saved, if you think you can turn away from and leave God's power then I say you've never known it and have a very low view of it.

Also please don't come with that "so you think you can sin all you want now and it's all good", I have to say that anyone who thinks this is possible in the heart of a man (or woman of course) who has been reborn in the Spirit of God has ignorance of the power of our God. The only way you can believe the gift of Salvation can be "lost" is those truly confused believers that have a very low view of Gods power and WAY too high a view of their power, or has actually never felt or truly experience the real power of our King!

No you cannot lose salvation any more than you could earn it.

 

[homwardbound]

it was different it is why he called MY GOSPEL;

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Note the arrogance in Paul's words, yes Paul liked to boast it is well known. but to say Jesus was raised according to Paul's gospel is clearly false! It is GOD by his power that raised Jesus from the dead, Jesus said on his last breath;

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do a side by side comparison of what Jesus and Paul preached and you will see the differences and no they do not complement one another. i can do it for you but I wont you have to look into this yourself it is the only way to see and understand.

Watch out for literal interpreting, that is like watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees, straining out gnats and swallowing a camel
I do not think for a second, Paul ever was or ever did say his Gospel. Anyways, okay to each their own
Paul as Saul was definitely arrogant and definitely went after God under Law, where he killed believers, that he repented of, as shown to me in Phil 3 about being under Law as he said he let go of in order to win Christ his savior unto God His Father
Anyways, there are many views in the room
As when Jesus got water Baptized, All those people there then saw it too, the dove descent, in the form of it, in the lightening that was happening, as there was not a cloud in the sky for that to happen at that time, The people all saw it happen, and they also, were all there, heard the voice of God from the Thunder. "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am pleased"
Not all believed, many did, some fell away and some stayed. Saul before Paul saw this happen that day also, was there when it happened and kept on under Law, was, taught Law by Gamaliel. He could not see truth until that road to Damascus, where on the way there he was, in bewilderment over Stephan he had just seen accept, being stoned to death, stating he saw the risen Son and wen't willingly. Who does that? He saw it!
That be what Happened to Saul you all. God saw the sincerity of Saul, who got born new as Paul
Then called to preach to the Gentiles.
He did that for fourteen years, before going. to the First chosen for any hand shake. He, as said in Galatians did not confer with flesh and blood. Also he said whatever those first chosen flesh disciples (Mixing Law and Grace) say about Timothy, not being circumcised in the flesh and blood nature, mattered not to him
Paul is talking about God, by God through Son giving new life in his risen Son's life to us, the people in belief to he is risen free of charge, these are the ones given the truth and are born new in God's Spirit and Truth. As man continues to charge and is not born again yet, not being willing to be dead
The last question from God are you willing to be dead right now, in this present second?
Your free choice to choose to be born new or not by God for you too,
Love to all

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[homwardbound]

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It's never too late to seek forgiveness!

yet there is more in the present to get, if not about to die yet as was that thief. New life in the risen Son's risen life from God Father?
What?
There were two people, went to a Doctor (Doctor Jesus). This Doctor diagnosed one as had a small infection and go get these pills and you will be fine
The other one got diagnosed with Cancer, and was to go through Chemo.
This Doctor put in the Subscriptions, perfect diagnosis of each person to the Pharmacy (Preachers) are this Pharmacy.
The Pharmacy (people) messed the prescriptions up
The healthy one who only needed pills to clear up a small infection got the Cancer prescription. What do you think Happened?
Under Law, under a curse. (Rom 7)
The other person, got the pills as all okay, (Like getting forgiven) And goes on about his unruly, mean demonized business as if, since I am forgiven, I can continue to rape women, I can steal and so on and so forth. The, same as the Corinthians did at first, misunderstanding what this forgiveness is for.
Being, the reason why Paul wrote to those Corinthian letters to (1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother), of the Corinthian Church to read it to them. For to get the right purpose through to them. To not harm others, to be born new from God Father of the risen Son for them and have sincerity in love to all, over the few, that only flesh knows how to do, love and hate as each person says to themselves to do, by their own justifications, using scripture to back Their own judgments up, not having compassion to others in God's love truth to all, over the worldly one first born in, of the flesh, being in pride and guilt when caught, not having guilt unless caught. Go figure y'all
Learn
To become wise as a serpent and remain harmless as a dove y'all thank you

 

[sawdust]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

You can only lose your salvation if you think God is incompetent and can't finish what He began.

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[BillyBob]

My post was just trying to explain that I believe that anyone may turn to Christ as long as they are living and breathing. The thief had very little time to live.

• He admitted that he was indeed guilty. Confessed
• He recognized Jesus for who He was and what He could do. He had trust
• He ask for forgiveness “remember me”. He pleaded to be remembered
  It would make no difference if he had just come to faith or if he was a backsliding believer. He would still be forgiven!

 

[timemeddler]

Did you mean "can't" repent? Because the Gospel of Jesus is all about repenting. Just saying.

Regarding Hebrews 6:4, maybe Gill's Exposition will help you

This gave rise to, and seems to favour the error of Novatus, that those who fall into sin after baptism are to be cut off from the communion of the church, and never more to be restored unto it; contrary to the promises of God to returning backsliders, and contrary to facts, as well as to the directions of Christ, and his apostles, to receive and restore such persons; and such a notion tends to set aside the intercession of Christ for fallen believers, and to plunge them into despair

Found here


Hebrews 6:4 - John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bíblia Plus

You might also remember that Jesus Himself taught us to pray...

"forgive us our trespasses/debts as we forgive those who tresspass against us/our debtors... 6th Chapter of Matthew... what is funny is how the next two verses seem to be ignored by so very many...

14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Kinda shines a different light on what a lot of people teach, huh?

yeah, that was a typo

 

[Jeraboo]

Should we kindly remember the person who started this chat, why they did and although there's some back and forth on scriptures and points about scripture on the topic, @gratefuloneson I feel was reaching out, may that not be forgotten and may he continue to be encouraged Just a thought! Stay encouraged! God Loves You!

 

[PaulThomson]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Why do you need to get certainty over that? Maybe God doesn't want us to have certainty about our destiny infinitely into the future.

 

[Aslanfriend]

Yes. If not, then much of scripture needs to be explained away, imo

Hebrews 6:3–8 (ESV): 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10:26–31 (ESV): 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Galatians 4:8–11 (ESV): Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11 I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Revelation 2:5–7 (ESV): 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. 6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

Revelation 2:10–11 (ESV): Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

Revelation 2:15–17 (ESV): 15 So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

Revelation 2:25–29 (ESV): Only hold fast what you have until I come. 26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Revelation 3:4–6 (ESV): Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Revelation 3:11–13 (ESV): 1 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Revelation 3:15–22 (ESV): 15 “ ‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

It seems clear that there is a real danger is not maintaining faith to the end. The idea of “saving faith” is found nowhere in the Bible. There is faith that endures to the end and faith that fails. Faith that doesn’t endure does not result in salvation.

This is EXACTLY why i don't think we will see any loved ones who ended their own lives in Heaven....because they "did not endure to the end" and of course that includes those who committed suicide who also called themselves Christian at one point. There is always a way out, but they ignored it and now their suffering is WAY worse than anything they ever endured on earth. Heartbreaking.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is EXACTLY why i don't think we will see any loved ones who ended their own lives in Heaven....because they "did not endure to the end" and of course that includes those who committed suicide who also called themselves Christian at one point. There is always a way out, but they ignored it and now their suffering is WAY worse than anything they ever endured on earth. Heartbreaking.

if enduring till the end is required. No one would make it. we will nto see anyone in heaven, we will nto be in heaven

 

[timemeddler]

This is EXACTLY why i don't think we will see any loved ones who ended their own lives in Heaven....because they "did not endure to the end" and of course that includes those who committed suicide who also called themselves Christian at one point. There is always a way out, but they ignored it and now their suffering is WAY worse than anything they ever endured on earth. Heartbreaking.

yeah... that kinda depends on what you classify as ending their own lives, remember how Sampson died?

 

[homwardbound]

This is EXACTLY why i don't think we will see any loved ones who ended their own lives in Heaven....because they "did not endure to the end" and of course that includes those who committed suicide who also called themselves Christian at one point. There is always a way out, but they ignored it and now their suffering is WAY worse than anything they ever endured on earth. Heartbreaking.

Might want to read Hebrews 10 the entire Chapter and ask God. For there are many people in affliction(s) that do want to do what is right and are having troubles over all the interpretations of others, even caught up in sin(s), not wanting to be there. We are people listening to people. I see to listen yes, yet please take all to God in prayer and hear within you truth over error
Hoping the best for everyone, to see the full Gospel, not the half sham one, where it is hey, we are forgiven, better do it or else attitudes of flesh nature. The full Gospel is: He is risen where new life from God is given, and then one does as asked willingly, not forced.
It could be as you have said above, yet God is 100% faithful, has been since day one as in not killing Adam and or Eve back then, rather clothed them in mercy, love and truth to say, I still love you. Amazing love this is, which is so misunderstood and has made God out in interpretations, to be a tyrant and to me, God has never been a tyrant at least not to me and I have gone through troubles here on earth too. It is not easy to let go and continue to stand in trust to God y'all.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Ephesians 3:16-17 says, "that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith;"

Okay, Christ dwells in our hearts through faith. If we abandon our faith, will He still dwell in our heart? On judgment day, will He say well done good and faithful servant? Even though you abandoned the faith, denied Me, and lived a life of sin, good job, enter into your reward. Seems pretty doubtful to me.

I'm not saying every lapse in faith will result in Christ abandoning us; but we should be very careful in thinking we can never fall from grace.

 

[Jimbone]

Ephesians 3:16-17 says, "that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith;"

Okay, Christ dwells in our hearts through faith. If we abandon our faith, will He still dwell in our heart? On judgment day, will He say well done good and faithful servant? Even though you abandoned the faith, denied Me, and lived a life of sin, good job, enter into your reward. Seems pretty doubtful to me.

I'm not saying every lapse in faith will result in Christ abandoning us; but we should be very careful in thinking we can never fall from grace.

This is a very low opinion of the power of God. Are you saved? Did the power of God transform you into an all new man? Could you walk away from Him? I couldn't.

 

[sawdust]

This is a very low opinion of the power of God.

I completely agree. It is God who saves. Faith comes from the word of God. Who amongst us can undo what God has done because we sin? We were sinners when we were saved. It didn't stop God from saving us in the first instance, our sin can't stop God finishing what He started in the last instance. Hebrews tells us it's our production that is affected by our failure to live according to God's word. (Heb.6:7&8) The land remains and we are the land. The question we need to ask ourselves is "does this land belong to God?" If you believe Christ died for your sin and rose from the dead? You will be saved. God keeps His word. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom.1:16) and once it enters your soul you are saved and nothing in all creation can break the power of God and that includes oneself.

 

[homwardbound]

I completely agree. It is God who saves. Faith comes from the word of God. Who amongst us can undo what God has done because we sin? We were sinners when we were saved. It didn't stop God from saving us in the first instance, our sin can't stop God finishing what He started in the last instance. Hebrews tells us it's our production that is affected by our failure to live according to God's word. (Heb.6:7&8) The land remains and we are the land. The question we need to ask ourselves is "does this land belong to God?" If you believe Christ died for your sin and rose from the dead? You will be saved. God keeps His word. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom.1:16) and once it enters your soul you are saved and nothing in all creation can break the power of God and that includes oneself.

Thank you for seeing this, only Father in the Holy Spirit reveals this truth, you stated above
Yet, people try, and care to try or not care and out here in this world of sin, these try to get others to be under them and then can make others do and they say is best according to them, when Jesus is the only mediator between God and you personally.


Hebrews 10:10-12

Authorized (King James) Version

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Under Law to have to do is Finished (John 19:30) Jesus the Lamb of God took all sin (John 1:29) but Unbelief to this done work for us all. Believe God or not, for new life to be given us in the resurrected Son, (Hebrews 9:14-17) Jesus for us, given unto us as Father has now made us as perfect ( Col 1:21-23)(even though we all know we are not perfect)

Either one believes this truth 100% or has doubt. Any doubt, keeps one out, think wise on that in Isaiah 7:9 if doubt, then God does not establish you. And Evil is all about doubt, should of, could of better do it right next time attitudes, that no first birth of flesh can ever do.
In place of going to God for more forgiveness, (Reconciliation since one sinned again, (2 Cor 5:17-20) How about start out with thank you for taking that sin away, I just committed again, Wow, I need to learn how to not let it get back s hold of me and leave it behind me, I trust you to do that. And watch God's done work for you work it through you too