Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

The point of it is that people make the choice to reject God, that is why they end up in hell.

Did I say anything different?

Calvinists fail to see how God makes it possible for fallen people to be made free to make their own choice.
Our flesh is opposed and antagonistic to the Spirit.
And, our souls were born into slavery to our flesh!

Grace silences the flesh!
The power of grace shuts down the influence of the flesh over our soul,
so that our soul in the body is freed from the depravity of the flesh.

And, while in that state of enabling grace?
The soul is made free to choose!

Irresistible grace was an attempt to explain what they were impatiently trying to find an immediate answer for.


It actually becomes simple and logical to understand once one can drop his arrogance of denominational conditioning.

There will always will be someone who fails to understand.

Do you understand that?

I only disagree when you try to give credit to men rather than giving God all the glory!

Credit for what?

If someone walked up to you and gave you a million dollars?
Are you going to boast about your greatness for accepting it?

.......

Projection will get you nowhere. You lost all credibility as soon as you denied that Satan sought God's permission to afflict evil on Job and God granted it to him.

And the enemies of the Cross of Christ who preach a false gospel "fail to see" (to borrow your phrase) that neither God or his Son are ever represented in scripture as POSSIBLE or POTENTIAL saviors. Here's a novel idea for you: This might be due to the fact that nothing is impossible with God! How's that grab you?

Since no one tackled the three dilemmas that I presented a few days ago in my 9699, I answer my own questions in the next post.

By way of quick review, let's see how we determined in my 9669 that fools, who are never spoken well of in scripture, are in a three-fold moral-spiritual dilemma. We learned about the unwise:

Fools are wicked (2Sam 13:13; Ps 92:5-7; 94: 3, 8)

Fools despise Wisdom (Prov 1:7) and hate Knowldedge and love their simple ways (Prov 1:22, 29).

Fools have no desire for Wisdom (Prov 17:16)

Fools have no Understanding (Ps 92:6)

Fools take no pleasure in Understanding (Prov 18:2, cp. Jer 6:10)

Fools have no desire to choose the Fear of the Lord, thus it's impossible for them to hate and shun evil (Prov 3:7; 8:13).

We also learned that the Fear of the Lord is a godly disposition of the heart (mind, passions, conscience and volition), whereby the whole man is engaged in this activity (Deut 5:29; Jer 32:39-40), thus finding great delight in God's commandments (Ps 112:1).

Further, we saw that The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom (Prov 9:10) and also the beginning of Knowledge (Prov 1:7).

And that Knowledge of the Holy One is the locus of spiritual Understanding (Prov 9:10).

But fools do not choose to Fear the Lord (Prov 1:29), thus it's impossible for them to hate and shun evil (Prov 3:7; 8:13).

And this led us to ask:

Therefore, how can fools seek Wisdom, Knowledge and Understading that they so hate even though all men are commanded to diligently and earnestly seek after it (Prov 4:5-9)?

And how can fools choose to Fear the Lord when they have no desire to (Prov 1:29; Rom 3:18) and yet the Fear of the Lord is the precursor to and the key to seeking the very Knowledge and Wisdom they hate ((Prov 1:7; 9:10; Isa 33:6), while simultaneously loving the Darnkess and Death (Prov 8:36; Jn 3:19) which also makes it impossible for them to hate and shun evil?

And how can fools have any true spiritual Understanding when they hate Knowledge of the Holy One, which is the warp 'n' woof of Understanding, in which fools also find no pleasure (Prov 18:2; Rom 3:11)?

Or...to condense the 3 into 1 question: How are Fools saved; or does God save only the Wise in which He has sovereignly chosen to instill Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding as He did with Solomon?

The short answer to these three dilemmas is: The Unconditonal, Unilateral Promises of Election and Effectual Grace in the New Covenant!.

Now, I'll lay out the biblical evidence, bearing in mind all the time the Three Dilemmas above and that the Fear of the Lord is the prerequisite to obtaining Wisdom and Knowledge.

God gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning (Dan 2:21).
Daniel in his last vision pertaining to Jerusalem was told the wicked will not undersand but those who are wise will (Dan 12:9-10).
The knowledge of the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven is given to only Christ's chosen disciples (Mat 13:11-15).
Christ promised his disciples that during the tribulation words of wisdom would be given to them (Lk 21: 14-15).
He gave understanding of the scriptures to his disciples after his resurrection (Lk 24:27, 45).
The message of wisdom was given to Christ's disciples (1Cor 2:6-14).
God made his light shine in the hearts of his people to give them the knowledge of His glory in the face of Christ (2Cor 4:6).
The elect are commanded to understand what the will of the Lord is (Eph 5:17).
The Son of God came to give his elect understanding so we may know him who is true (1Jn 5:20).
Paul and others prayed unceasingly for the Colossian Church for God to fill them with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding (Col 1:9).

Having said that, specifically how does the NC Church come by the Fear of the Lord that is necessary to gaining Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding that inheres in Special Revelation? Answer: By Effectual Grace. Consider these New Covenant Promises of God:

1. He promised to make a New Covenant with his covenant people that would be unlike the Old, and He would put his laws in the minds of his covenant people and also write those on their hearts so that all his people would know Him, i.e. have Knowledge of the Holy one which is Understanding (Prov 9:10), making it unnecessary for people to teach their neighbor or brother, saying "'know the Lord', for they will all know the Lord." (Jer 31:31-34).

2. God promised his covenant people that He would cleanse them from their sins, give them a new heart, put a new spirit in them, replace their old heart of stone with a new heart of flesh, put his own Spirit within them and cause them to follow his decrees and keep his laws (Ezek 36:24-27, also cp. Prov 3:7; 8:13; Ps 112:1).

3. Then God further reinforced his promise to his covenant people that He would indeed be their God and that they would be His people, that he would give them one heart and one way (cp. Jn 14:6), so that they may Fear Him always for their good, that He would make an everlasting covenant with them, that He would not turn away from them to do them good, that He would put the Fear of Himself in THEIR hearts, so that they would not turn away from him (Jer 32: 36-41), thereby effectively assuring them that they would fulfill their whole duty toward Him (Eccl 12:13).

4. Therefore, it follows from all this that God's chosen covenant people will walk in God's ways, follow his statues and obey his laws as result of having the Spirit of Christ within them, who Himself has the Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding, the Spirit of Counsel and Power and the Spirit of Knowledge and Fear of the Lord that will effectually empower them to Fear the Lord and obey his commandments (Isa 11:1-3, cp Eccl 12:13). And don't miss the intimation to the Trinity in this passage.

This, Unconditional, Unilateral New Covenant with all its promises then, is the biblical remedy for the tripartite dilemma stated earlier.
And we learn from the conditions of this covenant that God made the promises, contained therein, only to his chosen covenant people, and that the power that God exerts within his covenant people must be effectual since he's omnipotent and that, unlike the Old Covenant, there are no conditions that his chosen covenant people are required to agree to or fulfill, since their Federal Head perfectly fulfilled them all on their behalf, and is fulfilling them in them through the process of sanctification, and He will culminate his fulfillment for his people at the General Resurrection on the Last Day when they will receive their new glorified, spiritual bodies.

One final thing: How we answer this next question determines if our faith is biblical or not. Ponder this rhetorical question carefully:

Ps 94:8
8 Take heed, you senseless ones among the people;
you fools, when will you become wise?
NIV

If you cant' honestly answer this question and the evidence we have looked at still doesn't convince you, then I can suggest only one other passage. And if Job 11:12, in all its interesting variations, doesn't do the trick, then there might be no remedy for you.

Screw ball? Or spit ball? Which is it?

Show me what post I denied that.


Rufus? Which is it? Show us where I denied that Satan asked permission.

Now, I have to hold you by the hand and take for a little trip down memory lane because your memory is shot? You said that God's permissive will only applies to believers. But guess what: Satan ain't one of those.

Satan has to always ask permission for legal reasons!


In case you did not know?
God and Satan are in the middle of an ongoing heated court room session!
Satan is before the Judge still attempting to make his case.
To do so, Satan must ask permission of the Judge to present certain things before the court!

You need to expand your limited scope.
Here's an example of the difference.

If you asked, and received permission from your elementary school teacher to leave the classroom to use the little boys room?
Were you in the permissive will of that teacher?
No! You were simply given permission for something you asked for.

Now.. if that same teacher saw you in the play ground picking on a new student?
But knew that new student would teach you a lesson in pushing people around?
That teacher would not try to stop you. He would permit it to happen.

That teacher would allow for it to continue knowing full well that the new student that you thought
you could dominate over, studies martial arts.

No one asked permission. But the teacher permitted it to happen!
That is what the permissive will of God is like. Its not asking permission.

You need to learn how the context determines the meaning of how a word is used.


.........

Who in their right mind would reject an all powerful loving, benevolent being?

Anyone who would?
Would always be dangerous to themself and others.

That is why Hell is the permanent quarantine of incurable destructive minds.

The merciful have a hard time with this at first.

Then God allows the merciful to see what the cruel will do if allowed to be free.
That is why we see so much evil allowed for at present in this world we now live in.

We all must learn that ultimately Hell is the right thing to do for the sake of those who do love the Lord.



grace and peace ...........

You should stay far, far away from analogies. Your mind is obviously estranged from them.

When the teacher granted the student's request, that was an act of his or her will! The teacher had a choice to grant or to refuse. Therefore, when the teacher granted the request and the student acted upon it, the boy was acting in accordance with the teacher's permissive will.

Secondly, regarding your take on Satan asking the Judge for permission to "present certain things before the court", you still don't understand that it wasn't Satan who presented Job to God! It was the Judge who presented Job to Satan! You're so blinded by your presuppositions you cannot understand what the passage is saying. True knowledge is beyond your grasp, evidently.

There goes that MAN-CENTERED theology again! God condemns people to hell because all sin is infinitely offensive to an infinitely, loving, righteous and just God. God does all things for his own glory...not the glory of man!

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The world was condemned and everyone in it to destruction even Jerusalem the actual chosen of God was condemned to be destroyed by the old covenant curse . God then offers salvstion before that happens to all people ll nations the “ elect “ re these people

“and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭

In other words these people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s whether or not we believe the truth of the gospel that’s the only thing that makes one elect to be in the one who is the elect Jesus Christ .

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1‬ ‭

The elect is Christ and then all those in him become elect of his body

Thr elect of God is found here

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imagine of zgod just dropped the gospel and everything he said would save us and then Randomly elected people some other way it would make his words untrue because he swore by himself the gospel

God never randomly does anything. He's not an idiot! He does all things according to the counsel of his own will to serve his purposes and good pleasure. The fact that God did not make the New Covenant with the world in the distributive sense (for whom Christ allegedly died) -- but only with his elect, chosen, covenant people (redundancy for effect...maybe) should tell you something. The Gospel of the Kingdom was God's ordained means to achieve his ordained end...which is to save his chosen, covenant people, i.e. "Abraham's seed" IN the world.