Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Evmur

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I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.
The part you left out...

"if we are faithless He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself."

This scripture is about reigning not about salvation.
 

NilsForChrist

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Jan 31, 2023
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Should it require anything on our part, then it wouldn't be by God's power.

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
The question is then, why isn't everyone saved?

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17
 

Everlasting-Grace

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The question is then, why isn't everyone saved?

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17
jesus gave that answer in John 3

He uses Moses and the bronze serpent as an Example. The serpent was able to save everyone.But not everyone was saved.

Why?

I think Jesus answered this too.

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

You see. God was punishing them for their rebellion and their complaining.

God however also sent them something that would save them

some did Not want to admit they were guilty. So they refused to look, they continued in unbelief, and suffered their fate

Some confess their guilt. Repented. And look in faith. They lived (literally were born again)

Jesus used this to be an example of his salvation.

Those who do not want to repent or admit their error. Will continue in unbelief and remain condemned

Those who do see their guilt and in faith repent and believe. They will be saved.

In this Case, jesus said they will live forever. And never perish
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Those who claim that salvation can be lost really have no clue about salvation, or Gospel truth, or even the actual words of Christ, or His finished work of redemption.
The dramatic theodicy of Genesis 32 is an infallible proof of eternal security.
As is every other narrative related to the concept/promise of eternal security.
 

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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The question is then, why isn't everyone saved?

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17
Revelation 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

Note "Whoever desires"

Not all desire or want to put their faith in Jesus for salvation.
People have been rejecting Jesus ever since he came to save us.

Note also it's all about what Jesus has done and continues to do so that saves us and NOT US who save ourselves.
 

cv5

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Greetings.

Confidence doesn't equal guarantee. We are KEPT indeed IF we continue (Romans 2 & 11).
So you believe that it is YOUR pathetic miniscule faith, and YOUR feeble and fading strength that provides for YOUR eternal security?
Really? Thats YOUR swelling opinion of YOURSELF?

I will tell you what, if God should be remiss in providing your daily bread for a week, you would keel over.

THAT is where you are at buddy. Really.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Revelation 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

Note "Whoever desires"

Not all desire or want to put their faith in Jesus for salvation.
People have been rejecting Jesus ever since he came to save us.

Note also it's all about what Jesus has done and continues to do so that saves us and NOT US who save ourselves.
Amen and amen brother bill!
 

cv5

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Revelation 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

Note "Whoever desires"

Not all desire or want to put their faith in Jesus for salvation.
People have been rejecting Jesus ever since he came to save us.

Note also it's all about what Jesus has done and continues to do so that saves us and NOT US who save ourselves.
To choose Christ is a free will decision.
The lie of Satan is that there is no free will, and God is a cosmic tyrant.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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The question is then, why isn't everyone saved?

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17
Because it was not in God's good pleasure for everyone to be saved.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Does being denied by Jesus not equal facing eternal damnation?
A person has the opportunity to accept Jesus while they are alive but after they physically die and they didn't accept Christ then they will be denied but It doesn't mean that you were once born again then you then lost salvation and then denied by Christ.
 

NilsForChrist

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Jan 31, 2023
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oh, is the old testament irrelevant? why?

And He called to Him His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.
These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it, and if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
(Matthew 10:1-15)
And He called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff — no bread, no bag, no money in their belts — but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. And He said to them, “Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there, and if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.” So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent, and they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.
(Mark 6:7-13)
When Jesus had called the twelve together, He gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. He told them: “Take nothing for the journey — no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra shirt. Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town. If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.” So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.
(Luke 9:1-6)

how did Judas go around healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing lepers & casting out demons?
Exactly. I believe this nullifies OSAS. Sorry, checking old replies as a habit.
 

cv5

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Exactly. I believe this nullifies OSAS. Sorry, checking old replies as a habit.
What? Judas was NEVER saved. He was a fraud in their ranks, right from the start.
The Lord Jesus, who has all the information, knew of course. Just as He knows everything else.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
 

NilsForChrist

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What? Judas was NEVER saved. He was a fraud in their ranks, right from the start.
The Lord Jesus, who has all the information, knew of course. Just as He knows everything else.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
How could Judas cast out devils then? Can Satan drive out Satan?
 

cv5

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mailmandan

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What? Judas was NEVER saved. He was a fraud in their ranks, right from the start.
The Lord Jesus, who has all the information, knew of course. Just as He knows everything else.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Amen! Judas was an unbelieving unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)
 

Nehemiah6

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The dramatic theodicy of Genesis 32 is an infallible proof of eternal security. As is every other narrative related to the concept/promise of eternal security.
And we have seen Christ face-to-face in the Gospels. It is Jesus Christ Himself who is our salvation. Yeshua (Jesus) means GOD IS OUR SALVATION (Yah + shua).
 

Musicmaster

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Feb 8, 2021
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Eisegetical practices in scriptural interpretations is so prolific.

In relation to the OP:

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

If we carry the OP to its logical conclusion, then we may as well expect to see Peter burning in the pits of Hell. The problem is that salvation is not the focus of this context of three verses, nor is it the focus of the broader context. Peter denied Christ three times in one night, and was greatly ashamed, but not to the point of fearing for loss of salvation so far as we are told in the text.

The very sentence immediately preceding that key phrase of denial speaks of reigning with Christ, and before that being dead with Christ, and after that phrase it speaks of one believing not, and yet Christ remaining faithful because He cannot deny Himself.

What does all that mean? Simply stated, a true faith in a life brings one to being sealed by Holy Spirit. I personally don't believe Holy Spirit has a weak grip on anyone who has faith in the Gospel, in that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried three days, and then raise back up into life according to the scriptures, just as Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.

Now, granted, there are many who never had genuine faith in what Christ accomplished for all mankind to partake, and yet go along with the program, attending churchianity regularly, et al, and yet go back to their life of sinful pleasures like the proverbial dog returning to its vomit, never having truly had saving faith, and are used as instruments of proof for loss of salvation when they never had salvation in the first place. Dedication to religious vigor in practice doesn't prove anything by way of true, saving faith. I have yet to meet anyone who had the outflow of godly fruit from a genuine salvation in their life, who later lived like the devil.

So, it makes sense that the Lord would not countenance one who has denied Him to rule and reign with Him in the new Heavens and new earth.

Injecting salvation into the context is itself highly questionable in the arena of proper hermeneutics.

Bad fruit in a life saved by grace will suffer loss, with all the hay, wood and stubble of that life burning away in the fires of testing, and the individual left, proverbially smelling as if they had been bought at a fire sale, but saved nonetheless.

MM
 

Musicmaster

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Another facet of this topic is the phenomenon of having been "born again"...how does one become UNborn again? There is not one verse anywhere throughout the Bible that gives credence to that phenomenon of becoming UNbron again. Satan himself cannot be redeemed, which is true of all the angels that rebelled with him. Some things simply cannot be undone or reversed and so will never be in danger of being undone.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So, in the final analysis, ALL who ever had true, saving faith, will suffer loss of reward and inheritance for evil deeds, but will be saved "so as by fire."

MM
 

cv5

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Proof of eternal security right here....

Exo 17:3
And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?

Hint: He (Jesus) didn't bring them out of Egypt to kill them.
Salvation is not a lie (the accusation of Satan). God's promises cannot fail.
God will always lead us thru the wilderness to the promised land.

Same goes here.....

Jos 7:7
And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan!