Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

Everything stated here is God's side of the covenant....not our side of it.
Romans 1:31 states that covenantbreakers will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.
NO covenant with God is a one-sided event.

You are adding to His word to make it say and mean what you want it to. You can drag out the Greek and write 10 walls of text, but YOU have to add the "other than ourselves".

So bottom line here is that you are trying to add to the word of God. I don't accept that.

Amen...Not even ourselves ...

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [d]it would be evident that they all are not of us.

WHO would dare say that EVERY person that wasn't saved to begin with was an antichrist? And, btw, WHO dares to judge that every christian who apostatized was never saved to begin with?

This scripture's context speaks only of antichrists.
All we have here is another one verse - doctrine for the saved forever group's excuse for backsliders...& btw, their ONLY ONE.

Maybe YOU can lose your salvation. John says if you leave it you never had it anyway, but that aside. I have been assured that I can't lose mine, by His word and AWESOME power and plan. I'd never serve the weak God you believe in. ANYONE that KNOWS the true power of God could never insult Him by arguing how weak and unable it is to save. No one. You are saying that we can have our eyes open to truth, to KNOW God is real and Jesus IS His Son, that we can be spiritual resurrected and reconciled to God in truth, and then turn from the truth, or be snatched out of His hand. I couldn't disagree more and I personally see this as an insult to His power, on the same level to me, as spitting in His face. I'm not trying to just jab at you, but what you're saying I see this way whole heartedly.

I do not understand how you can say God saved you and completely transformed you, that you've been saved, truly born-again, to KNOW firsthand the power of God, yet argue that you could turn from it. I don't believe that's possible, obviously you do, because you are so trying to sell the weakness and inability of God so hard. Why? I don't understand why you want to teach that being born-again is just a probation that starts your works based salvation, something that has been totally condemned from the very start of the way.
The proof text you keep pointing to are not clear enough in the face of all the text that directly contradicts them, to make them mean what you say they mean. You have to harmonize ALL His word when dealing with these issues, and I believe that is sorely missing from your interpretations of what these text mean.

You obviously don't understand the covenant we are in. I explained in post #4097. Under what stipulation of the new covenant can God separate from us?

The new covenant is a unilateral agreement made solely by God. No action on the part of the recipient is necessary or even possible. This is what makes it by grace.

It is clear that nothing means nothing...not any thing.

So no action necessary or even possible you say? So repentance is no longer a requiremwent? What about accepting Christ? What about obedience? Whatever happened to commitment? God has a relationship with us but none required from us to Him?
We are not called servants of God for nothing.
Grace is for when we mess up, which is all the time.

Grace is for when we mess up, which is all the time.

Grace is unto salvation.

[Eph 2:8 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

It amazes me how so many blindly overlook the simple phrase "through faith"
Did you forget the famous phrase of Martin Luther "the just shall live by faith"?
I advise you to look up what 'through faith' means.

Did you forget the famous phrase of Martin Luther "the just shall live by faith"?

Exegete the text I cited in response to your challenge. Don't divert to some other texts. Does the Greek say " if a man were not to keep on abiding abide in me, he would be cast forth as a branch"? Or "If a man does not keep on abiding in me, he is cast forth as a branch"? Or something else?

2:19 When the false teachers went out from among the believers, they revealed that they did not belong to the Christian community; they were never true believers.they … us: In the opening verses of this book, John made a distinction between weand you (1:1, 3). We, the apostles, were the eyewitnesses of Christ, you were the readers. That same distinction is probably maintained here (see also v. 20). Thus when John says these false teachers were not of us, he means they did not agree with the teaching of the apostles. These antichrists had departed from the apostolic churches, and their attitudes and actions were not of the apostolic persuasion. If they had been in harmony with the apostles, they would have remained in fellowship with them (1:1–3).

NKJV study notes.

Do you think that has anything to do with this brother ?

“To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.””
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬

then to the disciples John says

“Do not love the world or anything in the world. ( instruction don’t do this )

If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us;

but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:15-20‬ ‭

Brother John is saying the same things Jesus said if you don’t remain in his doctrine it’s revealing that you don’t belong to him. Same thing I e been quoting same thing with “ if we willfully keep sinning there’s no sacrifice for sins left just judgement ect they also by thier actions parting from him reveal who they are and who they belong to .



When Christian’s go out and start preaching alternate gospels that reject the lord and his way of salvation it’s showing them to be a fraud. Those scriptures don’t say anything about salvstion having it or losing it . It’s disciples who turn away showing thier allegiance to the world.



“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:1, 4‬ ‭

Johns again talking about the Holy Ghost being in us from Christs doctrine same thing Jesus told us would happen if we believe him

The one who is in you he gets in you from the gospel when we believe

““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. ( the annointing in us )

The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15-17, 23-24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

John is speaking from his gospel to people who believed it and followed


.Brother sometimes people believe in Jesus and then they realize when they hear his doctrine it’s going to change things for them they see Jesus calling for things like love of money list greed ect and at that point they stop they turn back and never bear fruit

This is actually what’s going on since the gospel is being preached

“When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not consider it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. ( not god causing it )

This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. ( not god causing it )

When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:19-22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

it’s the word of the gospel and our response to it god isn’t causing anyone to be damned or forcing anyone to be saved he’s given the choice to us all

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

that’s true for every living soul it’s not saying “ God has already determined what your going to do good and bad and then he’s going to blame you and punish you for what he caused

It’s saying clearly to everyone willing to listen and believe “ one day you are going to have to stand before Jesus and receive e writhing that you have done in his sight good or bad “

thats the entire reason for the gospel gods trying to save us from the coming judgement because we’ve all sinned believers non believers everyone is in the same group and needs to accept the gospel it’s the only thing on earth that can save anyone on earth

But I don’t know brother I don’t think it’s saying “ either your saved or you aren’t there’s nothing you can do about it “

i think the opposite it’s saying no matter who you are if you believe the gospel you shall be saved !

Everything stated here is God's side of the covenant....not our side of it.
Romans 1:31 states that covenantbreakers will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.
NO covenant with God is a one-sided event.