Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

You know better than that.
English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
New American Standard Bible
nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

I'm done with these games.

Nope, it cannot be "in" and must be "of". This is because those saved are justified by God (Christ). Being justified by God and also being justified by faith, the faith then therefore must be God's (Christ's). It would be a logical impossibility for it to be otherwise and the Bible is never illogical - it would be illogical for it to be "in". The faith must be from whoever it is that justifies.

[Rom 8:30 KJV] 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

[Rom 5:1 KJV] 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

PaulThomson said:
Exegete the text I cited in response to your challenge. Don't divert to some other texts. Does the Greek say " if a man were not to keep on abiding abide in me, he would be cast forth as a branch"? Or "If a man does not keep on abiding in me, he is cast forth as a branch"? Or something else?

Exegete the text you blithely dismissed meeting your challenge. Don't keep evading it by posing tangential philosophical questions.

The context of the passage is all the things that cannot separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. After listening a myriad of things, the apostle concludes there is nothing that can do so.

Now show me what provision of the new covenant that Christ did not fulfil. If it is fulfilled, on what basis can God separate from those in Christ?

This whole business of salvation, eternal security, Calvinism, and Arminianism, can get quite complex and argumentive.

There is one thing I know from Scripture:

(1) Only those who believe in Jesus will get to heaven
(2) Those who do not believe in Jesus will not get to heaven

That looks like 2 things you know.

God doesn't separate from anyone. In him everyone lives and moves and has their being. We separate ourselves from God.we estrange ourselves from Him. That's what John 15 is saying. "If any man does not keep on abiding in me...."
John 15 is the new covenant. Under the stipulation of John 15 we can separate, alienate, estrange ourselves from God. I never said scripture says God separates from us.

Amen. If we want to be assured we are presently saved, be abiding in / surrendering to Jesus. Those fixated on having a permanent guarantee of heaven just aren't loving God now for who He is, but for what they can get from him later. ISTM

I cited John 15:6. It a provision under the new covenant where a man can separate himself from Christ.

Sure. But we cannot take ourselves out of Christ. We lose fellowship and blessing, and we undergo correction and chastisement, but we are never removed from being in Christ.
So, simple question...has Jesus fulfilled for every Christian every aspect of the new covenant?

You should read John 15 again. My Bible says those individuals are cast forth. The thing about casting is you don't cast yourself. So who casts them away? Verse 2 says the Father does this.

“The old covenant had such stipulations. And God in 70AD executed the sanctions on Israel because they failed to uphold the terms of the covenant. “

Ot is based on what Moses and the prophets said

jesus word and judgements set the conditions in the new covenant he’s the mediator and his word is the covenant

The condition is the things Jesus said

“The law and the prophets were until John ot word )

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, ( nt word ) and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭


The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 4, 14-1

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭

“For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. “

“And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭

“And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judæa by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:1‬ ‭

“And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: and he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭

‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1-2KJV‬‬

After he died and rose he sent then to all people to take the covenant word and baptism into Christs name , to them also

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you want to see the conditions look at Jesus sermons or Paul’s epistles the parts that teach us what to do like this

“If you have heard Christ and were taught by him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

to be made new in the attitude of your minds;

and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.


Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.

“In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed until the day of redemption.

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-32‬

That’s a sample of the things Jesus taught in the gospel which is our covenant the things the lord said are the conditions

Jesus words and judgments describe behavior in the new covenant. The conditions of the covenant were for Jesus to fulfill the law for our righteousness, and shed His blood for the remission of our sins.
Any requirement on our part negates grace.
This doesn't mean we live as we desire. One of the evidences of true salvation is a changed life marked by increasing holiness and obedience. But even that is due to the work of God in us.

He does it because they won’t bear fruit
They won’t abide in him

““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭

you seem to be saying the reason they don’t bear fruit is Gods fault , they never were really in him and weren’t removed , God didn’t allow them to bear fruit ? And that’s why they are removed then ?

They don't bear fruit because they aren't connected to Christ.
What provision of the new covenant allows for God to cast someone in Christ away? The new covenant has been fulfilled. Christ has done everything necessary for us. Are you saying Christ saves us but we must maintain our own salvation? This world negate grace.

you

“Jesus words and judgments describe behavior in the new covenant. “

Jesus

“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49

You
“The conditions of the covenant were for Jesus to fulfill the law for our righteousness, and shed His blood for the remission of our sins.
Any requirement on our part negates grace.”

Jesus

“For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

you understand God and salvation better than Jesus ?

“I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

you say this isn’t valid or true ? Not a requirement ?

brother I’ll give you this lol you stick you your guns !

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You

“They don't bear fruit because they aren't connected to Christ.”

My question ?

why does he have to remove the branches in the vine like a gardener if they aren’t connected to the vine in the first place ? If they were never in him they wouldn’t have to be removed ……

When they were under the Kingdom Gospel, yes. Separation was possible only because they were required to endure unto the end, and then they "shall" be saved. We today are not under that Gospel of the Kingdom. If we were, then we too would have to endure unto the end so that we too "shall" then be saved in the future tense rather than to be sealed by Holy Spirit.

Their salvation was a future event. Today, when one believes the Gospel of grace today, we are sealed by Holy Spirit, and therefore saved NOW, not at some future time on the basis of endurance.

What you're saying is based upon a failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

Paul said:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

If the apostles had been preaching the same Gospel earlier on as was given to Paul, which they were not, then the dispensation of grace would not have been anything more than the idea that Gentiles were then to be included in God's salvation. Under the Gospel of the Kingdom, Gentiles had to become Jews for salvation, obeying the Mosaic Law exclusive of the animal sacrifices that were fulfilled in Christ.

The false idea of there being only one Gospel is a denial of Paul's message to us all:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Two gospels, for a time, preached to different groupings, for a time, but eventually both groups saved only by the Gospel of Grace until the departure in the rapture, which will bring an end to the Gospel of Grace, and the Kingdom gospel once again in place, with those people having to endure unto the end so that they then SHALL be saved. (Matthew 24:13).

So, those who think they can harmonize both gospels are free to believe such, but they can never explain away the disharmony they bring to the word of God with such a belief. For example, there are those today who are trying to live a harmony between grace and the dispensation of Law, claiming that we today are required to obey the Mosaic Law. They too are faced with the same disharmonies they create with their doctrinal belief system. It is all true, but apply only TO those to whom they were written and applied.

All of scripture is FOR us, but not all of it is TO us today. Rightly dividing the word of truth is a matter of dividing truth from truth, not truth from falsehoods. It is all true, but it is not all TO us.

MM

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Of his fullness we have all received grace upon grace that is now present.

For the law was given by Moses;

grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”

‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 10, 12-14, 16-17‬ ‭

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are there any people you have come across who were associated with a church but you suspect aren't saved?
Just this.