The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.

1 Corinthians 1:18

Do tell what does the research demonstrate regarding the reading fluency and comprehension of many modern readers when reading 16th - Century English.

Was a control group involved?

Reading levels of the General population is on a 5th grade reading level.

Shakespeare is no longer a High School level of reading....it's post-secondary.

So we have a group of elitists snobs that claim only one translation is acceptable?
No different than the Pharisees in any respects. The Pharisees claimed that the Aramaic translation was the ONLY viable translation and that the Greek Septuagint was a heathen translation. The Aramaic translation also included "Targums" which was explanatory commentaries on the scriptures in the margins. (On the left side of the collums on the scrolls as Hebrew and Aramaic is read right to left)

Stephan was stoned to death in part because he quoted the Septuagint instead of Hebrew or Aramaic translations. The Greek translation was deemed to be the wicked language of Goyim and not allowed in the Sanhidrin. So it infuriated them more for a predetermined outcome.

So....where this notion of "not needing anyone" to help you understand the scriptures is absolutely against what scriptures relate starting with Adam and Eve in the Garden. Adam had the responsibility of teaching Eve and their children what God had said and we see Eve failing completely in her conversation with the serpent.

It also fails in that Levites were responsible for all handling of scriptures to teach the people God's Word.
However, this Caste-based lifestyle has been destroyed by John's Baptism. (Why Jesus said, " of those born among women there is none greater than John")

But the principle remains that the Gospel is not such that you discover it for yourself you must hear it from someone else. Meaning you need to be prepared to give an answer for the faith you hold. And if you are average you only read on a 5th grade level. If divergent, then you have a 50/50 of lower or higher. Meaning that the Gospel Scriptures are now closed to 85%+ of the entire population.

Totally NOT what God wanted or intended.

The scriptures themselves are 5,700 to 2,000 years old from another culture and manner of writing. Completely foreign to the current population. Of course a hermeneutics guide is 100% necessary. God doesn't supernaturally hand out knowledge to the majority of people despite the Bible itself being supernaturally preserved over the thousands of years. (And it's destruction and deliberate neglect has seen very profound determination over the millennia. )

It's prejudice in its most profound form with a fig leaf of religiosity for clothing....and insufficient. It is also hateful, spiteful, and murder of an eternal nature....the worst kind of murder.

Surely the Lord God does nothing, without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets. Amos 3

Clearly, you don’t pay attention to anyone who doesn’t prefer the KJV.

the KJV sound like poetry and its my go to bible but many have a hard time with the archaic words that we have grown up learning. Its distracting to some while the NIV version speaks right to the person.

love is a gift given, not a wage earned

You have an opinion based on your personal bias that is all, it not based on data.

The Bible is God's Word. Therefore, we need to interpret it according to the meanings of the words he inspired in Hebrew and Greek. Get a good concordance and study all the places God inspired the uses of words in their contexts, and you will understand his meanings, not those of our cultures.

The son speaking for the children to those in Christ “ our father”

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My father says the son and our father says the son to his brethren

Wrong. I listen to people who don’t agree with me as well as those who do.

Many people on this forum have stated that they find the archaic language of the KJV bothersome so they use a modern version. That has nothing to do with my “personal opinion”.

As for “data”, this is a discussion forum, not a scientific journal.

If the scriptures were not spiritual then the de facto church leadership would be comprised of Greek, Hebrew and English Professors.

No actually, I was writing to you on my phone at 2:00 a.m. and when I woke up and reread everything it became even more crystal clear how unconvincing your case was.

You don't know the first thing about the culture of the day, nor understand that most people were illiterate (around 90% could at most write their name according to Google) and so the society was set up to pass on such information as you cite to the masses verbally. You also ignore the fact that Peter had notably spent time with Jesus and so people could see he had learned things despite not being formally educated. This was specifically mentioned in a passage I quoted though I had decided to cut it out as clutter.

You clearly don't know your Bible, adding some things and being oblivious or denying others. You haven't even acknowledged the Bible verse that I wrote to you in two different translations, and for which searching now reveals at least three translations that specifically call Peter and John 'illiterate' (See here). Many people don't know their Bibles but they usually then know better than to claim they know what's in there.

And then you make the ridiculous assertion that I'm being resistant when I even allowed for the possibility that I was missing something.

And what in the world do you think a scribe is if you say that none of the evangelists and apostles used one and then immediately concede that Paul had a friend record things for him - the very definition of a scribe?

If you have been a problem to talk to in the past I have forgotten. Speaking with you now though, whatever opinion I had of you before has now surely dropped severely due to your poor logic and even more glaring lack of humility. I am very close to just hitting ignore on you for such inappropriate and godless speech as you have spoken of late. If you want to help others or learn from them yourself, you first need to seek God to help get the log out of your own eye that is very much in your way. And in case you are also unfamiliar with that passage, you can look it up in Matthew 7.

Thanks for your baseless opinion.

In general I agree... while the NIV certainly isn't perfect either, it is written in today's English so most readers are able to comprehend its basic message without a dictionary on hand.

If Paul did not let us know how he felt that first?
I might feel guilty for feeling the way I do towards certain believers.



According to Paul, my following statement is Biblical.


"Sometimes I am driven to wanting to cry to see how dumb certain Christians are. "

If I looked up an old friend and found myself witnessing to him... And, he suggested we visit this church down the street that he drives by every day? And, while sitting in the pew, I found out the preaching is KJV Only. I would sit there feeling shame, and wishing to cry.


That's a real problem and why the devil promotes all false teachings.

His opinion is baseless but your blanket generalized statements and opinions hold merit for some unknown reason.

Our discussions are not research based, I am so relieved, it is also good to know that this no longer a logic forum where we just go around and tell people about all their logical fallacies.

Very relieved indeed.

His statement is a matter of opinion; my point is a matter of fact. It’s unfortunate that you don’t know the difference.