The devil sinned from the beginning

Reading 1 John chapter 3. Verse 8.
KJV.

I could do with clarification on this point. I thought the devil was originally Lucifer, Bearer of Light, a powerful angel in heaven. That he was thrown out of heaven along with a third of the angels.

So from what point had he been sinning? It depends on what The Beginning means.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..... so it would be in the garden of eden when everything took place, which is what I believe. Lying to Eve was the reason he was kicked out of heaven... hence his immense hatred of mankind.

It could also be due to his name change. He wasn't named the devil in the beginning. His name changed bc of his sin. As the devil he has sinned the whole time.

I’m still wrapping my head around the concept of sin in the presence and perfectness Love and of Gos’s glory and presence. And not only that Satan was able to deceive 1/3 of the angels in heaven who also had seen God face to face.

"hence his immense hatred of womankind"

I have a theory about this. I think God cast Lucifer down to the Garden of Eden to be the snake in the tree perhaps to give Lucifer an opportunity to repent. now the bible doesn't say how long he was on the tree or where the other angels were at this time. all it says is that he enticed eve to the tree to eat of its fruit . why would the devil prefer that existence to the much better life in heaven with our Father? then he compounded his sins by also causing Eve to do wrong. For what reason did he do it?

the bible does say however that Lucifer was not evil from the beginning ---Ezekiel 28:14-16 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


Jer 4:23I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a [m]formless and desolate emptiness;

And to the heavens, and they had no light.

24I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,

And all the hills jolted back and forth.

25I looked, and behold, there was no human,

And all the birds of the sky had fled.

26I looked, and behold, [n]the fruitful land was a wilderness,

And all its cities were pulled down

Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

This was Satan's fall. And after an undetermined amount of time. 100 Years? 1 billion years? God restored the earth for mankind.



Gen 1:2~~And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And we don't know Satan's name. He only has titles. I think that's the Humor of God. A proud and arrogant creature with no known name!

John Gill said:

(excerpt)

for the devil sinneth from the beginning;
not of his creation, for he was made by God a pure and holy creature; but from the beginning of the world, or near it, at least from the beginning of man's creation; for he not only sinned by rebelling against God himself, and by drawing in the rest of the apostate angels into the rebellion with him, but by tempting man, as soon as created, to sin against God: what was his first and particular sin is not certain, whether pride or envy, or what; seems to be, his not abiding in the truth, or an opposition to the truth of the Gospel, respecting the incarnation of the Son of God, mentioned in the following clause; see ( John 8:44 ) ; however, he has been continually sinning ever since: he "sinneth"; he is always sinning, doing nothing else but sin; so that he that lives a vicious course of life is like him, and manifestly of him:

(here)

1 John 3:8 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary - Bible Study …

Thankyou.
I am unsure of when and for what reason Lucifer fell from heaven.

‘cliff notes< throughout scripture. Doctrines made out of cliff notes is, to me not a good thing. Satan, having free choice, wanted to be God, since he had many Angels under his tutelage. He was able to answer their question. If and whenever he did not know an answer. He went to God the creator for the answer(s) Got the and answered them, without telling those Angels about God. God saw it and planned it all out using free choice. Knowing without giving free choice, no one could truly love God without free choice.
whoever of the flesh wants to be in charge, will not give free choice, will say they will, yet that will always get revealed these do not do that as God has and does ever since day one of the fall of the 1 Adam.
John 1:29 is fulfilled John 19:30 filled, Psalm 103:12 Hebrews 7:11-12 Hebrews 10:10

The “beginning” in Genesis 1 is when God began to reveal Himself in time and space and when He put everything in order for His Beloved. Because It follows that the devil was present in the garden with Adam and Eve, he would have fallen from this beginning. The family or house of God the Father began to be revealed “in the beginning”. At no time that I am aware of, did Lucifer serve man faithfully. He was always an enemy of God’s family.

John means what what he said, the devil sinned from the "beginning", meaning the very 1st sin, ever.

Lucifer (his name before he rebelled) is actually the author of sin, and was the first one to commit sin. The result of sin as written, is death. Thus the power of death was assigned to the devil for that reason. And like Hebrews 2:14 says, for this reason Lord Jesus came to die on the cross, to defeat death and the devil for us.

See Ezekiel 28, about the "king of Tyrus" (Tyrus means 'rock' by the way, and per Deut.32:31 the lower case "rock" is put for the devil in comparison to "our Rock" Jesus Christ).

God is using the "king of Tyrus" to actually point to Lucifer before he rebelled, because Lucifer is who was in God's Garden of Eden, not some flesh king of Tyre. And Lucifer is the anointed cherub, a cherub being a heavenly created being. That is a parable. God said there that He created him perfect in his ways originally. Thus there was a time when Lucifer actually followed God, and was perfect in His Presence, and that was before Lucifer sinned against God in coveting God's Throne for himself.

I did wonder what the devil was doing in Eden. If it isn't a stupid question!

Conjecture. I don't believe the actual instance where Satan first sin is stated in Genesis. My best guess that it started when Satan wanted to be above God. This is probably conjecture on my part though.

Actually, a fascinating question. My best guess is that perhaps this was Satan's first opportunity to commit a sin by tempting and deceiving Eve. He maliciously twisted scripture in doing so and that is most definitely a sin.

I agree. It must be in the Bible, not conjecture.

I am just idly wondering why a lying deceitful being was doing slithering around in the garden of Eden which was the ideal paradise for the first humans.

I guess that's what lying deceitful beings do - they slither.

Maybe it was a similar-to-Job type of situation, and we can sort of somehow maybe retroactively apply this Scripture:


Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...

I think you will find it is John's way of saying Satan had fallen prior to the creation of humanity and we can trace the origin of our sinning to that encounter in the Garden.

The word translated "beginning" has the connotation of origin rather than referring to a specific time period.

1Jn.3:8
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

The knowledge of good and evil wasn't created in the garden. Though the tree was.