Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Why though brother what did preaching the gospel cause or effectively allow for ? Why did he send it to be preached to all creation ?
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
…Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
Romans 10:12-15, 17 NIV
Paul’s quoting prophecy again
“How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, “Your God reigns!” The Lord will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God. See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him— his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.”
Isaiah 52:7, 10, 13-15 NIV
“Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; ( not they were born like that but they turned away and followed after thier own way ) and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
….Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.”
Isaiah 53:1, 4-6, 10-11
the point is until we hear these things not what I’m saying but what’s in the Bible what the writers especially of the nt are saying until we hear those things they preached after Jesus sent them out to preach those things ,
no one could have ever believed any of them because nonone would have ever heard about them jesus name and life would have faded away with Jerusalems end but the report still remains , thier witness of the gospel still remains for us even today. So that we can hear about Jesus and believe and be saved
My point is the gospel is how we believe we have to listen to what Jesus sent to us “to thier report “ of the gospel his witnesses report who were chosen and went to preach it
In other words the Bible’s message about Jesus spreading that into the world is how people come to believe anyone can many do not they reject what they hear like we do with any matter we hear about we either believe it or we don’t
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
…Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
Romans 10:12-15, 17 NIV
Paul’s quoting prophecy again
“How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, “Your God reigns!” The Lord will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God. See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him— his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness— so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.”
Isaiah 52:7, 10, 13-15 NIV
“Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; ( not they were born like that but they turned away and followed after thier own way ) and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
….Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.”
Isaiah 53:1, 4-6, 10-11
the point is until we hear these things not what I’m saying but what’s in the Bible what the writers especially of the nt are saying until we hear those things they preached after Jesus sent them out to preach those things ,
no one could have ever believed any of them because nonone would have ever heard about them jesus name and life would have faded away with Jerusalems end but the report still remains , thier witness of the gospel still remains for us even today. So that we can hear about Jesus and believe and be saved
My point is the gospel is how we believe we have to listen to what Jesus sent to us “to thier report “ of the gospel his witnesses report who were chosen and went to preach it
In other words the Bible’s message about Jesus spreading that into the world is how people come to believe anyone can many do not they reject what they hear like we do with any matter we hear about we either believe it or we don’t
The elect and how men are drawn to Jesus
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:32-33 KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
John 3:14-16 KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4
unfortunately
“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
John 12:32-33 KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
John 3:14-16 KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4
unfortunately
“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
The entire Romans 5 has nothing to do with the elect and no word is found for the 'elect'. Romans 5:19 refers to the 'many' who have responded or received God's grace and obtained the gift of righteousness as in v.17 or the free gift of v.18. As it appears that this is for all for all all have sinned as in comparison to v. 12. So the notion Romans 5 is for the elect is false and not according to the context.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You won’t like my answer but
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
Matthew 6:6 KJV
I try to keep my prayer life between the lord and myself. Brother I pray that Gods word ( the gospel ) will be heard by as many people as possible because I believe the gospel has the power to save people who otherwise will be lost without Jesus . I dont think any of them are doomed and can’t be saved the same way I believe i and others will be saved since Jesus died and rose
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
Matthew 6:6 KJV
I try to keep my prayer life between the lord and myself. Brother I pray that Gods word ( the gospel ) will be heard by as many people as possible because I believe the gospel has the power to save people who otherwise will be lost without Jesus . I dont think any of them are doomed and can’t be saved the same way I believe i and others will be saved since Jesus died and rose
-
1
- Show all
How about this Greek philosopher guy? Make any sense there buddy?
https://christianchat.com/threads/why-do-some-people-believe-and-some-do-not.217577/post-5432271
https://christianchat.com/threads/why-do-some-people-believe-and-some-do-not.217577/post-5432271
no you didin't you just told me I was using my natural instinct, you cannot change the meaning of a word just to fit your own beliefs and saying that all means some is just flat out changing the meaning of a word. If I missed it then please tell me again as I am legally blind and may have missed it but as far as I can tell you didn't
Thanks for the reply. And I have no problem with your answer. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. We simply disagree about what is true of a natural fallen man and what the power of the gospel consists in.
My whole point on prayer is simply that people object to God inpinging Himself upon people and their choices, yet pray for that very thing. If you have ever prayed the Lord's prayer, you have prayed for God to bring to pass His will on earth and an outcome that people are openly opposed to. In essence, you are asking God to purposely do something contrary to a person's will.
My whole point on prayer is simply that people object to God inpinging Himself upon people and their choices, yet pray for that very thing. If you have ever prayed the Lord's prayer, you have prayed for God to bring to pass His will on earth and an outcome that people are openly opposed to. In essence, you are asking God to purposely do something contrary to a person's will.