OSAS, a pointless discussion

As I've pointed out before, the argument over OSAS or not is based on a false understanding of salvation. I'll repeat myself because obviously quite a few still don't get it. There are two salvations, not one. The word salvation has become Christian code for going to heaven when you die. As Eli kindly pointed out, the word salvation is better translated deliverance.

As I was told as a young believer, God delivers us from the penalty of sin through the precious blood of Christ. He delivers from the power of sin through our co-death with Christ. He delivers us from the presence of sin when we leave this life for the next.

A believer is one who is born again. That is the work that God does. If you are born again, that is irreversible. However, there is a further work that God does in the life of those who are born again. And that is the deliverance of the soul. This is in fact the goal of our faith. A goal is something we aim at. We don't get there instantly, unlike being born again.

Please note that the soul itself is a servant. The mind and emotion should be under the control of the spirit of the believer. God does not deal directly with the mind. The mind should be "reading" the spirit, so to speak and putting what it reads into words that can be understood.

The deliverance (is you must, salvation) of the soul has a number of aspects. It's important not to get too analytical. Very often, God does the work without us being aware of it. For sure we often misunderstand what God is doing. The aspects include, not in any order,

1. Spiritual knowledge. This kind of knowledge is imparted by the Holy Spirit to our spirit. We need spiritual knowledge to make our spirit man strong. We need that strength to override the impulses of flesh and the self of the soul.
2. Separation of soul and spirit. This is the work of the Sword of the Spirit, the Living word of God. You can see that this work may also be a source of spiritual knowledge
3. Deliverance from worldly opinions and attitudes. How many Christians are brainwashed by the pseudo science called evolution? This leads to confusion, doubt and unbelief with respect to God's word. We are programmed from birth that certain attitudes are not just acceptable but there is a price to pay for rejecting the world's point of view. This is increasing in the post Christian world the West is fast becoming. So it becomes illegal to say that homosexuality is sin or that there are only two genders. Australia is debating a "respectful relationship" bill. If it becomes law, Christians may find themselves imprisoned for preaching the gospel. Australia is supposedly free country.
4. Deliverance from self will. How much work is done that God never asked for and never approved. Such works may be marvelous to the ignorant. If they are done apart from Jesus, both His initiating and empowering, they are worthless. Too many do something then ask God to bless it. We need to be doing only what God wants. It was good enough for Jesus.....

There are other aspects. I may cover those later.

The deliverance of the of the soul is God's business. Rebellion, independence, pride and complaining can delay God's process. There is nothing that we can do to speed it up. God works with us as we are and He knows how to deliver us. Keep looking to Jesus even when things look bad. You may well find that God is most pleased with you, even if you are most uncomfortable!

As a discussion or debate, yeah, I agree, it's pointless. The scriptures aren't silent on this subject though so people owe it to themselves to understand it. I have my beliefs on the matter, but they're my own and I don't discuss it here anymore.

I also agree that discussion of this topic is pointless with people who have made up their minds, but anyone out there who may be interested in what GW has to say about this doctrine, please consider the following:

The spiritual union between believers and Christ is comparable to marriage (EPH 5:23-32), and just as a husband and wife need to continue their commitment until they part at death, Christians also need to retain saving faith (LK 9:23, 2CR 4:16) as they grow spiritually, learning how to become more like Christ or achieve His fullness. Then they will neither take God’s grace for granted nor repent of their decision to serve Him as Lord. In other words, perseverance is an implicit and integral part of faith; Christians need to persevere in their acceptance of the kerygma and to keep on learning the didache until the day they die (MT 10:22, 2THS 1:3-5, 2PT 1:5-8).

Saying we “need” perseverance prompts this question: Is it possible for a Christian to repudiate his/her saving faith and become apostate or again bound for hell? Before seeking to answer this question, we should remember that although perseverance is an implicit part of the creed, understanding the details of this or any doctrine is not necessary in order to remain saved, because the kerygma is simple enough for a young soul to understand (cf. MT 18:3), and didachaic details can become rather complicated and controversial. Thus, a Christian needs to be humble or Spirit-filled before tackling such issues, keeping in mind that whichever position a Christian takes on any secondary doctrine, he/she should fellowship with those having a different interpretation who affirm the kerygma both verbally and by typically manifesting divine love.

The issue of apostasy has been debated ever since Augustine of Hippo developed his doctrine of predestination about A.D. 400. Romans 8:38-39 seems to say that it is impossible for a Christian to fail to persevere. Paul writes: “For I am convinced that neither death nor life… nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” We also read in John 10:27-29 that Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice… no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” (Also, see RM 8:38-39, RM 14:4&10, 1CR 1:8, 10:12 & 15:5, 2CR 1:20-24, EPH 1:11-14, 1JN 2:19, PS 135:6 & PR 21:1.)

However, there are numerous verses in the NT which indicate that it is possible for a believer intentionally or willfully to separate him/herself from Christ (cf. GL 5:1 & RV 12:9). The classic passage that teaches the possibility of apostasy is Hebrews 6:4-6: “It is impossible for those who have… shared in the Holy Spirit… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again.” Another verse in this vein is Galatians 5:4: “You who are trying to be justified by law… have fallen away from grace.” (The reader should also see RM 11:22, 1CR 15:2, CL 1:22-23, 2THS 1:4-5, 2TM 2:12, HB 3:6&14, 10:35-36, JM 1:12, 2PT 1:10-11, 2:20, 1JN 2:24-25 and RV 2:10.)

Some Christians say that the biblical exhortations to persevere do not imply the possibility of apostasy but this interpretation is problematic for three reasons:

First, the plain sense of many verses of Scripture including those listed in the preceding parentheses suggests that it is possible for a believer to commit apostasy, and saying that this under-standing is false seems to make God tricky.

Second, God’s plan of salvation from the miserable consequences of choosing to reject Him makes sense only if people are morally accountable or free, and free will is meaningful only if a person can choose between essentially opposite options, as in Deuteronomy 30:19: “I set before you today life and death, blessings and curses.” This is the same choice that was set before Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (GN 2:16-17) and before that to Satan in heaven (LK 10:18). I see no reason to think that this choice is not eternal, because it is this choice which creates: free will (faith in Christ or antichrist), moral responsibility (love the Lord or hate Him) and meaningful life (taste of heaven now and hope for eternal joy rather than misery now and ultimately hell). And 1 Corinthians 13:13 says “these three remain”.

Third, Jesus said “The truth will set you free” (JN 8:32), and “If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (JN 8:36) As a disciple of Christ I feel free, and I find every day fraught with significance as I fight on God’s side against evil in a war that has ultimate consequences for the destiny of my soul. Spiritual freedom is in Christ.

If Christians retain the same freedom they had as non-Christians to accept or reject Christ’s Lordship, then the second most important truth to learn in life after the Gospel/kerygma is the “necessity” of persevering in accepting Christ as Lord and in learning God’s Word (LGW) until we die in order to achieve our God-given purpose in life: the fullness of Christ or spiritual maturity. [LGW signifies this truth.]

The doctrine of perseverance or LGW serves as a bridge from the kerygma (creed) to the didache (lifelong spiritual growth) or from spiritual birth to maturity, so it is logical to harmonize various/diverse biblical statements on this issue before proceeding to other didachaic topics. The passages cited previously that seem to support predestination may be harmonized with those supporting free will or perseverance as follows:

1. John 10:27-29 – being “unsnatchable” does not disallow a person from choosing to jump out of the “Father’s hand”. Also, in JN 6:37 “never drive away” does not mean a person cannot go away, and in JN 6:39 “I shall lose none” may refer to those who persevere or do not stray, who stand firm, who endure, who hold firmly, etc.

2. Romans 8:38-39 – “anything else” may refer to powers other than one’s own will.

3. Rom 14:4&10, Paul says not to judge a servant of Jesus, who is able to make them stand before God’s judgment. The verb “make” may mean “provide a way”.

4. 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, Paul says that Jesus will keep the Corinthian believers firm to the end, warns them that if they think they are standing firm to be careful that they don’t fall and therefore, stand firm, letting nothing move them from the work of the Lord. These verses indicate that standing firm involves a believer cooperating with the way Jesus provides.

5. 2Cor 1:20-24, Paul says that God makes us stand firm in Christ and anointed our hearts with the HS as a seal and deposit; it is by faith that we stand firm. This indicates that the way God provides for standing firm is for believers to persevere in cooperating with the HS.

6. Ephesians 1:11-14 – what is “predestined” is God’s plan to choose or elect anyone who desires to be “in him” or to satisfy GRFS. Thus, being “marked in him with a seal” does not abrogate moral free will (cf. 2PT 1:10f).

7. 1 John 2:19 – when synthesized with verse 24 must mean that those who repudiate their Faith do not eternally “belong”.

8. Psalm 135:6 – in light of “volitional verses” (such as DT 30:19 & MT 23:37) means that God “pleases” to permit limited free will.

9. Proverbs 21:1 – in order not to make God responsible for the sins cited in the rest of the chapter must mean that the “king’s heart” or will is choosing to cooperate with the Lord’s “hand” or directions.

Objective truth has way of doing that.

one body and many parts, thank you for being a part

Yes, agree, God's Eternal Salvation "is pointless among the argumentative," but
praise and thanks be Unto God For the silent readers/studiers of these pointless
discussions who actually humbly take heed to What Saith The Scriptures [ Personally ]
To them and Then are Encouraged And Edified Growing Further In God's Marvelous Grace,
eh?:

Because Of Christ's ALL-Sufficient Work On The Cross!,

God's Three Tenses Of His Eternal Salvation
(RDF = Rightly Divided From):

Expounded here, In God's:
Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!
+
Further Biblical Confirmation!!:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Precious silent readers/studiers, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, And In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Amen.

Oh good, this topic hasn't come up in a while.

Indeed but scripture doesn’t do that

I think subjective interpretation combined with a pope complex is to blame.

Hey OP if its ok you said "OSAS, a pointless discussion" so why post this? So we the people of the.. sorry wrong forum

Two things changed my view of people is one seeing them through His eyes. yeah you can ask.. for me He answered that 15y later and the disciples and many others would ask someone that came up with thus say the lord or the like would be asked "who are you? Who knows you? Who long have you walked in what you teach/preach" then all would go pray for a long time. In threads like this I think believe is a good time to us it because were talking about ever lasting life something we cannot give away. Its a new spirit a new man a new creation. This once saved always saved or you can lose it are not questions I ever get. I just see them in a boat and the storm roaring " how can you sleep were all going to die!" Oh you of little faith and I hear when did you lose your faith.

I do like reading what others say .. hey can miss things.. I don't go backwards and I only have this moment.. do you right now know Jesus or not? Again.. not sure why make this thread.. since it was said to be pointless.

Time and seasons.. side note. I have never felt His presences so much. Rebecca St James Ready for the rain.. I think now is the best time to get our life in order..

osas is not a pointless discussion because it is a very vital thing to understand. he will never leave us or foresake us just remember that

There absolutely no Good News, zero zilch, unless salvation/justification is 100% irrevocable, secure, a finished free gift accepted once in real time.

My God does not loose, Satan did. Period.

"just remember that" indicates the vital need for...
...perseverance. :^)