What is a church?

Face to face.. the Word in other parts of scripture is called the perfect Law of liberty that acts as a mirror to the believer of their state.

Whatever is perfect in 1 co 13 was also in part. The early churches..prophecy, tongues etc.. were in part.

The perfect completed these.

The second coming of Christ isn't in the context of prophecy , tongues and knowledge being in part.

Of course when Jesus returns the gifts will cease..but scripture points to a point before then.

But chatgpt is hardly a solid source

The perfect is the perfect man which is the body of believers who the scripture equates likewise, making an analogous comparison to the human body by assigning various body parts to related gifts that believers possessed, when put together was the complete body, hence the goal fir the perfection of that body. I said nothing about the NT.

So your scripture only?

The scripture is not the literal "face to face"?

The Lord's Commandment is redundant?

Absolutely! What else is there other than after-the-fact, non-scripture created by men.

That means you accept all the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

No church history, no interpretation of the text, no theology!

Amen!

Yes, how can they be denied, except within their own context and timeframe. Because I accept them, it doesn't mean that I think they are still in effect; they're not, nor are they needed today whereas they were in the early days of the church.

Yes, how can they be denied, except within their own context and timeframe. Because I accept them, it doesn't mean that I think they are still in effect; they're not, nor are they needed today whereas they were in the early days of the church.

We can't confuse miracles the same as with those gifts that were imparted by the hands of the apostles which enabled those which they touched to manifest tge gifts. If God performs miracles today it's not by means of a person's hands who somehow has special or unique abilities to do so.

And actually, the perfect refers to the maturity of the church as a body at any given location at that point in time, not an individual, since the whole text is referring yo tge individuals possessing various gifts for the edification of the body of Christ, the local church at Corinth which obviously had a myriad of issues.

I take them as the Lord's Commandment.

There are churches that accept all the ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yet, they are rare.

Earnestly seek the gifts and you will receive.

The power of the Holy Spirit in our lives is essential.

Even the Catholic and Orthodox churches accept the miracles of the Holy Spirit.

A Christian conversion is a miracle.

No one can deny miracles.

Accepting miracles logically implies you must accept the full power of the Holy Spirit.

Nothing changes over time in the super natural arena.

I take them as the Lord's Commandment.

There are churches that accept all the ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yet, they are rare.

Earnestly seek the gifts and you will receive.

The power of the Holy Spirit in our lives is essential.

Even the Catholic and Orthodox churches accept the miracles of the Holy Spirit.

A Christian conversion is a miracle.

No one can deny miracles.

Accepting miracles logically implies you must accept the full power of the Holy Spirit.

Nothing changes over time in the super natural arena.

I think the only problematic gifts are tongues and miracles, and I agree with your application and harmonization of various Scriptures regarding this topic: the perfect refers to a mature Christian manifested by a spirit of unity (EPH 4:1, 1CR 1:10), and a grown man (1CR 13:11), removal of the vail (2CR 3:14-17), and the perfect man (EPH 4:13). Plus, Paul commands that glossalalia not be spoken in church meetings (1CR 14:19).

The issue of miracles is not addressed as much by Paul and is not claimed as much by Christians today,
but it seems logical to think that if miracles are now rare, so also is genuine glossalalia.

Don't, as I've already said, confuse a miracle of God with the gift of miracles. DIFFERENT stuff. Did someone impart a miracle by the laying on of their hands? Only the apostles had the ability to impart the gifts of the Spirit, and they're long dead.

Chat GPT is the literal reading of the text without any theological interpretation.

I would sit up in my chair with my ears pricked if Chat GPT disagreed, with my reading of the text.

There are no other sources but sola scripture.

We cannot defer to authority or church history because that is what 'scripture only' means.

Why is Chat GPT not a solid source when it only uses the text?

John Wesley spoke of the gifts of the Spirit. He said that the reason the church was lacking was a lack of faith. Anyone who imagines that the church is no longer in need of any of the gifts is blind to the real spiritual condition of the church, at least in the West. Much of what calls itself Christian is a joke. Spending a couple of hours singing rock songs with God words and jumping around is not worship. Yet this has become a substitute for preaching and teaching in many places. Some seminaries are teaching that the Bible is fallible and that God is not all powerful and all knowing. And the ignorant and gullible accept this as fact. We've had that false teaching promoted here fairly recently. God's people are still being destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Your opinion is not what the New Testament states.

Gifts are helpful if they manifest or coincide with the fruit of the Holy Spirit, who is needed for salvation.
Singing songs may be motivated by love for God, but Christians should move beyond the milk of the Gospel kerygma to the meat of maturation, which is attained by learning and applying didachaic teachings, especially God's desire for unity.
We do not have the original Scripture, but even if it were inerrant all who interpret it are fallible, so the need for harmonization of both Scripture and believers remains.
I believe TULIP is an errantO interpretation/belief, because it contradicts Scripture teaching that God loves everyone.

Gifts are helpful if they manifest or coincide with the fruit of the Holy Spirit, who is needed for salvation.
Singing songs may be motivated by love for God, but Christians should move beyond the milk of the Gospel kerygma to the meat of maturation, which is attained by learning and applying didachaic teachings, especially God's desire for unity.
We do not have the original Scripture, but even if it were inerrant all who interpret it are fallible, so the need for harmonization of both Scripture and believers remains.
I believe TULIP is an errant interpretation/belief, because it contradicts Scripture teaching that God loves everyone.

1st, "gifts are" is really, 'gifts were'.
2nd, did ache is not scripture, its man made up supplemental writings.
3rd, you make mention that tulip, whatever that is, contradicts Scripture, but so does did ache
4th, God's word IS inerrant

1st, "gifts are" is really, 'gifts were'.
2nd, did ache is not scripture, its man made up supplemental writings.
3rd, you make mention that tulip, whatever that is, contradicts Scripture, but so does did ache
4th, God's word IS inerrant

People need to be careful with gifts. Gifts can be counterfeit, but fruit cannot be faked. The thing is that you cannot counterfeit something that does not exist. We also should be aware that God's gifts are irrevocable, no matter what the spiritual state of the gifted person.

There is never a time when singing hymns, psalms or spiritual songs is unnecessary. (Ephesians 5:19)