Is cessation an observation or theology?
- Thread starter Lamar
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Genez,
Thank you very much. I am in life long pursuit of a relationship and knowledge of the God we serve. As God has no boundaries, neither do it when it comes to deeply learning His ways and Will.
Truth is based on reality and this thread was based on the reality of the claims of physical supernatural manifestations.
Regardless of how many chapters are in Daniel or which books have been translated from Ethiopian it does not affect the lies of these false claims.
And what does that leave us with?
Something to simply argue over?
Is there anything to be learned from that?
Something that might edify the believer's soul?
Or are you just dealing with arguing.
Arguing over facts that really do not affect us directly?
What gives?
The problem really is.
How many of them do you understand?
You are the type that argues over the kind of paper something was printed on, rather than what was printed.
Genez:
Your claim is that the Book of Daniel teaches "truth." Does that mean it teaches accurate/actual history?
OMC:
The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do accept as deuterocanonical but just a sacred at the first 12 chapters of Daniel. The term deuterocanonical means "second canon."
It does not mean these books are secondary in authority or importance; rather, it reflects the historical reality that their canonical status was affirmed later than the "protocanonical" books (the books found in the Hebrew Bible). These additions were part of the ancient Greek Septuagint translation used by the early Church. The Catholic Church infallibly closed its Old Testament canon—fully including these additions—at the Council of Trent in 1546
I acknowledge that Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox tradition use the term deuterocanonical to describe books that were received later, in a “second canon,” and I affirm that they include the additions to Daniel—Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, and the Prayer of Azariah—as sacred writings; but I confess that Scripture itself never divides Daniel into “canonical first twelve chapters” and “secondary sacred additions,” because Jesus and the apostles consistently treat the Hebrew canon as the authoritative Word of God, and the Jewish community from which Jesus came never accepted those additions as part of Daniel. I therefore reject the idea that “deuterocanonical” means “equally canonical,” because the term itself acknowledges a later, secondary status, and I stand by the conviction that the inspired book of Daniel consists of the twelve chapters preserved in the Hebrew text, while the later additions may have historical or devotional value but do not carry the prophetic authority of the original canon.
OMC:
OMC:
The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do accept as deuterocanonical but just a sacred at the first 12 chapters of Daniel. The term deuterocanonical means "second canon."
It does not mean these books are secondary in authority or importance; rather, it reflects the historical reality that their canonical status was affirmed later than the "protocanonical" books (the books found in the Hebrew Bible). These additions were part of the ancient Greek Septuagint translation used by the early Church. The Catholic Church infallibly closed its Old Testament canon—fully including these additions—at the Council of Trent in 1546
I might note that the Protestant Bible uses the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible written over 1,500 years after the events of Daniel. The version accepted by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and many others are based on the Septuagint translation 1,200 years earlier than the Masoretic Text. Obviously, the New Testament authors used the Septuagint version of Hebrew Bible texts in their writing.
OMC:
The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do accept as deuterocanonical but just a sacred at the first 12 chapters of Daniel. The term deuterocanonical means "second canon."
It does not mean these books are secondary in authority or importance; rather, it reflects the historical reality that their canonical status was affirmed later than the "protocanonical" books (the books found in the Hebrew Bible). These additions were part of the ancient Greek Septuagint translation used by the early Church. The Catholic Church infallibly closed its Old Testament canon—fully including these additions—at the Council of Trent in 1546
I might note that the Protestant Bible uses the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible written over 1,500 years after the events of Daniel. The version accepted by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and many others are based on the Septuagint translation 1,200 years earlier than the Masoretic Text. Obviously, the New Testament authors used the Septuagint version of Hebrew Bible texts in their writing.
While I certainly have weaknesses, you have never discerned them. You are religious, but not spiritual. You possess some understanding, but no wisdom. You are as those who find it necessary to tear down others to increase in stature. You do not exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in your discourse; neither do you emit the savor of Christ. You cannot tame your tongue and suffer from a deceptive heart. You spoke of being a mirror and absorbing what others place onto you. The word of God is the mirror, not you, and you should try looking into it and seeing what is truly there.
I know you will likely twist what I have shared with you back on me. In some ways you might even be correct. But I hope that doesn't keep you from ultimately being edified by what I shared with you.
Grace and peace.
I acknowledge that Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox tradition call the additions to Daniel deuterocanonical and affirm them as sacred, but I confess that the term itself does not mean “equal authority” or “equal inspiration”; it means these writings were received later, in a second stage, and were never part of the Hebrew canon Jesus and the apostles affirmed. I see that the Septuagint was widely used in the early church, and I agree that NT authors often quote its Greek wording, but I reject the claim that this validates the Septuagint’s expanded canon, because Jesus explicitly speaks of “the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms”—the threefold Hebrew canon—not the Greek additions. I also reject the idea that the Masoretic Text is “1,500 years later” and therefore inferior, because the MT reflects the same Hebrew tradition preserved long before Christ, while the Daniel additions in the LXX were never accepted by the Jewish community that produced the Scriptures Jesus Himself endorsed. So I stand by this: the inspired book of Daniel is the twelve‑chapter Hebrew text; the later Greek additions may have historical or devotional value, but they do not carry prophetic authority, and neither Jesus nor the apostles ever treat them as Scripture.
I am responding to an old argument people make for why the Bible can't be trusted. I know you would never make such an argument. I was helping Cameron143 by supplying him with factual information that he can use as he defends the integrity of the Bible. Biblestudent78 seems to have bought into the view from biblical scholarship that treats certain biblical texts as non‑inspired, non‑authoritative, or at least not divinely safeguarded, and they generally fall under the umbrella of textual criticism or historical‑critical scholarship.
There are scholars who argue that parts of Scripture are not inspired or authoritative, and many of them work within historical‑critical or magisterial textual‑critical frameworks. These approaches often treat the Bible as a purely human artifact rather than a divinely preserved text.
The Battle for the Bible (1970s–1980s) was a major evangelical controversy over biblical inspiration, inerrancy, and authority, sparked in part by scholars who argued that certain biblical texts were not inspired, not authoritative, or not historically reliable. The book The Battle for the Bible (1976) by Harold Lindsell became the flagship manifesto of that struggle.
Lindsell documented controversies at places like Fuller Seminary, the Southern Baptist Convention, and Lutheran institutions — all centered on whether the Bible is fully inspired and without error.
I believe that the Bible, as we have it today, is fully inspired and without error.
I don't argue for argument's sake and I don't have a problem with argument. But I do want to help others understand what is at stake. To edify the soul I will say this. Trust the Bible and the Holy Spirit.
If interested?
There is a mini masterpiece book on Daniel - Chapters 1-6.
Anyone wanting a copy can order it free of charge.
https://rbthieme.org/ordering/publications/daniel--chapters--one--through--six
Pastor R.B. Thieme Jr was once asked by Billy Graham to be his private mentor.
He was too busy with his congregation (teaching six nights a week) to accept.
Also, Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll attended their early years in his congregation.
God has provided for all our needs.
I thin
The last time I checked, Jesus said, "Greater work will you do".
Go and read the last block of Mark 16 about those who will believe.
Are you sure you were ordained because you don't sound like such.
The last time I checked, Jesus said, "Greater work will you do".
Go and read the last block of Mark 16 about those who will believe.
You will have to learn to live with people who have different views than yourself. We are called to unity not uniformity.
The greater works will be the advancements in expounding and explaining the Word of God....
Making understandable what it means.
Much of what Jesus taught was yet to be explained.
And, 99.99% of the NT Jesus could not teach from.
For it was not in writing when Jesus walked the earth.
The sign gifts had nothing to do with greater works.
Otherwise? ... We would be seeing tongues speaking preachers running on water.
..............
I did not make the claim, you did. I'm interested in what kind of truth you had in mind.
Many are very satisfied with the 12 chapters. What they meant then and now is in vast disagreement. By the way the "three fold Hebrew Canon is quite different:
The Three Categories of the Tanakh (the Jewish Canon) The Torah (תּוֹרָה)Instruction / Law5 Books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. The foundational narrative of Judaism. It covers creation, the early ancestors (Patriarchs and Matriarchs), the Exodus from Egypt, the receiving of the Commandments at Mount Sinai, and the laws guiding Jewish life.
Nevi'im (נְבִיאִים)Prophets 8 Books: Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Trei Asar (The 12 Minor Prophets counted as one book). Traces Israel's history from entering the Promised Land up through the Babylonian Exile. It is traditionally split into Former Prophets (historical narratives) and Latter Prophets (literary and moral exhortations).
Ketuvim (כְּתוּבִים)Writings 11 Books: Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah, and Chronicles. A diverse collection of sacred literature. It features prayers and poetry (Psalms), philosophy and wisdom (Job, Ecclesiastes), and late historical narratives (Esther, Ezra-Nehemiah).