Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

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OMC said:

​

Revelation​

  • Revelation 20:3 — “the nations” not deceived during the thousand years
  • Revelation 20:8 — “the nations… Gog and Magog” after the thousand years

Isaiah​

  • Isaiah 2:2–4 — nations flowing to the Lord
  • Isaiah 11:10–12 — nations seeking the Root of Jesse
  • Isaiah 19:23–25 — Egypt, Assyria, Israel blessed together
  • Isaiah 60:3–12 — nations coming to Zion’s light
  • Isaiah 65:20–23 — people living, dying, bearing children

Zechariah​

  • Zechariah 14:16–19 — nations going up yearly to worship the King

Micah​

  • Micah 4:1–3 — nations taught and judged by the Messiah

Psalms​

  • Psalm 72:8–11 — all nations serving the Messianic King

Daniel​

  • Daniel 7:14 — all peoples, nations, and languages serving Him
  • Daniel 7:27 — dominion over all nations under Messiah’s rule

Joel​

  • Joel 3:17–21 — nations surrounding Jerusalem after the Day of the Lord

Amos​

  • Amos 9:11–12 — restored Davidic kingdom possessing the nations

Ezekiel​

  • Ezekiel 36:22–36 — nations witnessing Israel’s restoration
  • Ezekiel 37:21–28 — nations recognizing the Lord’s sanctuary among Israel
Click to expand...

I believe it is a mistake to box everything into a neat little package. We are to compare scripture with scripture. Have you considered that the nations might be the dead who have died in the past, before the manifestation of the Son of God, and that are resurrected after the millennium. I believe key scripture is found in Ezekiel 34-39.

Most people spiritualize the raising of the dead bones of Israel, but what happens when you take Ezekiel 37-39 literally? Where, and when, are they resurrected? Rev 20:5 speaks of the dead that are resurrected after the millennium. Is this not the natural branch that is grafted back into the tree that Paul speaks of? Revelation 20:6 speaks of death having no power over the first resurrection, but the implication is that death does have power over the second resurrection which occurs after the millennium. Who are the children that shall die a hundred years old?

There are three places where God speaks of uniting the two kingdoms. The one is in Ezekiel 37:16-23, and another is found in Ezekiel 31:31, and the third is found in Hebrews 8:8.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isa 49:17-23 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee. Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

The only places God and Magog are mentioned is in Ezekiel 38, after Israel is resurrected from the grave, and Revelation 20:8.
 
OMC said:
Brother, the answer is short and entirely scriptural:

The firstfruits were resurrected when Christ was resurrected.

Scripture says it plainly:
1 Corinthians 15:20 — “Christ is risen… and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
1 Corinthians 15:23 — “Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming.”
There is no earlier resurrection, no separate group, no hidden harvest.

Christ’s resurrection is the firstfruits resurrection.
Click to expand...

Who were they that were resurrected with Christ? Was it the 144,000?
 
tttallison said:
I believe it is a mistake to box everything into a neat little package. We are to compare scripture with scripture. Have you considered that the nations might be the dead who have died in the past, before the manifestation of the Son of God, and that are resurrected after the millennium. I believe key scripture is found in Ezekiel 34-39.

Most people spiritualize the raising of the dead bones of Israel, but what happens when you take Ezekiel 37-39 literally? Where, and when, are they resurrected? Rev 20:5 speaks of the dead that are resurrected after the millennium. Is this not the natural branch that is grafted back into the tree that Paul speaks of? Revelation 20:6 speaks of death having no power over the first resurrection, but the implication is that death does have power over the second resurrection which occurs after the millennium. Who are the children that shall die a hundred years old?

There are three places where God speaks of uniting the two kingdoms. The one is in Ezekiel 37:16-23, and another is found in Ezekiel 31:31, and the third is found in Hebrews 8:8.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isa 49:17-23 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee. Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

The only places God and Magog are mentioned is in Ezekiel 38, after Israel is resurrected from the grave, and Revelation 20:8
Click to expand...
your entire proposal collapses under one simple reality:
Revelation 20 never calls the nations “the resurrected dead.”
It calls them “the nations.”
And in Scripture, nations = living peoples, never resurrected corpses.
 
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tttallison said:
When were the firstfruits resurrected?
Click to expand...
Alongside Jesus at the first resurrection as firstfruits.
The doctrine of paradise emptied.
Jesus descended to hell at his death.
(Hell and paradise illustrated in the rich man and Lazarus).
They were seen resurrected and walking the streets.
 
OMC said:
your entire proposal collapses under one simple reality:
Revelation 20 never calls the nations “the resurrected dead.”
It calls them “the nations.”
And in Scripture, nations = living peoples, never resurrected corpses.
Click to expand...

Can you explain who the resurrected dead are who live on earth with Gog and Magog? Revelation 20:5

I was always taught never to say never.
 
Psalm1 said:
Alongside Jesus at the first resurrection as firstfruits.
The doctrine of paradise emptied.
Jesus descended to hell at his death.
(Hell and paradise illustrated in the rich man and Lazarus).
They were seen resurrected and walking the streets.
Click to expand...

Did that include everyone from Adam on?
 
OMC said:
Brother, the answer is short and entirely scriptural:

The firstfruits were resurrected when Christ was resurrected.

Scripture says it plainly:
1 Corinthians 15:20 — “Christ is risen… and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
1 Corinthians 15:23 — “Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming.”
There is no earlier resurrection, no separate group, no hidden harvest.

Christ’s resurrection is the firstfruits resurrection.
Click to expand...
...and main harvest is at the rapture.
Main harvest always follows firstfruits.
Firstfruits guarantees main harvest.

Then corners and gleaners.
 
tttallison said:
Did that include everyone from Adam on?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that Jesus preached to the souls in paradise.
He also preached to the souls in hell.
The firstfruits had to be millions upon millions..

I think it is in 1peter where those that died in the flood were preached to.
 
tttallison said:
Can you explain who the resurrected dead are who live on earth with Gog and Magog? Revelation 20:5

I was always taught never to say never
Click to expand...
Revelation 20 itself makes your question impossible:
There are no resurrected dead living on earth with Gog and Magog.Revelation’s timeline forbids it.
1. Revelation 20 gives a fixed order — and your proposal reverses it

Here is John’s order:
Nations exist during the millennium “…so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be finished.” (Rev 20:3)
Satan is released and deceives the nations “He shall go out to deceive the nations…” (Rev 20:8)
The nations surround the camp (Rev 20:9)
Fire falls and destroys them (Rev 20:9)
THEN the dead are resurrected “And the dead stood before God…” (Rev 20:12)

Your view requires:

the dead resurrect before the rebellion,
live as “nations,”
die again at 100 (Isa 65),
then resurrect again for judgment.
John never says this. John’s order forbids it.

2. “The nations” in Revelation NEVER means resurrected people
The word is τὰ ἔθνη — the nations.

In Scripture, ethnē always means living peoples, never resurrected corpses.
living nations in Matthew 24
living nations in Revelation 7
living nations in Revelation 15
living nations in Revelation 20:3
living nations in Revelation 20:8
John never uses ethnē for resurrected wicked.

Your interpretation requires John to use the wrong word.

3. Revelation 20:5 does NOT describe people living on earth

“The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”
This is the second resurrection —the resurrection of the wicked for judgment, not for life on earth.
They appear only at the Great White Throne (20:11–13).They never appear in the Gog–Magog rebellion.

4. Ezekiel 37 is NOT literal resurrection of Israel’s ancestors

Brother, this is the key mistake.
Ezekiel 37 is symbolic national restoration, not bodily resurrection.

God explains the symbol: “These bones are the whole house of Israel.” “I will bring you into your land.”
Literal resurrected people do not need:
land
David as king
cleansing
covenant renewal
a sanctuary
But Ezekiel’s restored Israel needs all of these.

That proves it is national restoration, not resurrection.

5. Isaiah 65:20 cannot be about resurrected people “The child shall die at a hundred years old.”
Resurrected people cannot die.
This alone destroys the idea of resurrected dead living during Gog and Magog.

6. Romans 11’s “natural branches” are living Jews — not resurrected ones

Paul says: “If they do not continue in unbelief, they will be grafted in again.”
This is faith, not resurrection.

Paul is talking about living Israel, not dead Israel.

7. Gog and Magog in Ezekiel ≠ Gog and Magog in Revelation

You are merging two different events:
Ezekiel’s Gog — pre‑millennial
Revelation’s Gog — post‑millennial
Same names, different eras — just like “Babylon.”

There are no resurrected dead living on earth with Gog and Magog.
Revelation’s timeline makes it impossible.
The nations are living nations — not resurrected ones.
The second resurrection happens after Gog and Magog, not before.
 
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tttallison said:
I believe it is a mistake to box everything into a neat little package. We are to compare scripture with scripture. Have you considered that the nations might be the dead who have died in the past, before the manifestation of the Son of God, and that are resurrected after the millennium. I believe key scripture is found in Ezekiel 34-39.

Most people spiritualize the raising of the dead bones of Israel, but what happens when you take Ezekiel 37-39 literally? Where, and when, are they resurrected? Rev 20:5 speaks of the dead that are resurrected after the millennium. Is this not the natural branch that is grafted back into the tree that Paul speaks of? Revelation 20:6 speaks of death having no power over the first resurrection, but the implication is that death does have power over the second resurrection which occurs after the millennium. Who are the children that shall die a hundred years old?

There are three places where God speaks of uniting the two kingdoms. The one is in Ezekiel 37:16-23, and another is found in Ezekiel 31:31, and the third is found in Hebrews 8:8.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isa 49:17-23 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee. Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

The only places God and Magog are mentioned is in Ezekiel 38, after Israel is resurrected from the grave, and Revelation 20:8.
Click to expand...
What is the doctrinal implications of a millineum of resurrected dead people?

Are you pointing to a second chance for them?
 
Psalm1 said:
What is the doctrinal implications of a millineum of resurrected dead people?

Are you pointing to a second chance for them?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by a millennium of resurrected dead people. Revelation 20:5 indicates that the second resurrection occurs after the millennium, and it calls them the dead.

Did they have a chance to reject Christ if they died before Christ was manifested.

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 
OMC said:
Revelation 20 itself makes your question impossible:
There are no resurrected dead living on earth with Gog and Magog.Revelation’s timeline forbids it.
1. Revelation 20 gives a fixed order — and your proposal reverses it

Here is John’s order:
Nations exist during the millennium “…so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be finished.” (Rev 20:3)
Satan is released and deceives the nations “He shall go out to deceive the nations…” (Rev 20:8)
The nations surround the camp (Rev 20:9)
Fire falls and destroys them (Rev 20:9)
THEN the dead are resurrected “And the dead stood before God…” (Rev 20:12)

Your view requires:

the dead resurrect before the rebellion,
live as “nations,”
die again at 100 (Isa 65),
then resurrect again for judgment.
John never says this. John’s order forbids it.

2. “The nations” in Revelation NEVER means resurrected people
The word is τὰ ἔθνη — the nations.

In Scripture, ethnē always means living peoples, never resurrected corpses.
living nations in Matthew 24
living nations in Revelation 7
living nations in Revelation 15
living nations in Revelation 20:3
living nations in Revelation 20:8
John never uses ethnē for resurrected wicked.

Your interpretation requires John to use the wrong word.

3. Revelation 20:5 does NOT describe people living on earth

“The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”
This is the second resurrection —the resurrection of the wicked for judgment, not for life on earth.
They appear only at the Great White Throne (20:11–13).They never appear in the Gog–Magog rebellion.

4. Ezekiel 37 is NOT literal resurrection of Israel’s ancestors

Brother, this is the key mistake.
Ezekiel 37 is symbolic national restoration, not bodily resurrection.

God explains the symbol: “These bones are the whole house of Israel.” “I will bring you into your land.”
Literal resurrected people do not need:
land
David as king
cleansing
covenant renewal
a sanctuary
But Ezekiel’s restored Israel needs all of these.

That proves it is national restoration, not resurrection.

5. Isaiah 65:20 cannot be about resurrected people “The child shall die at a hundred years old.”
Resurrected people cannot die.
This alone destroys the idea of resurrected dead living during Gog and Magog.

6. Romans 11’s “natural branches” are living Jews — not resurrected ones

Paul says: “If they do not continue in unbelief, they will be grafted in again.”
This is faith, not resurrection.

Paul is talking about living Israel, not dead Israel.

7. Gog and Magog in Ezekiel ≠ Gog and Magog in Revelation

You are merging two different events:
Ezekiel’s Gog — pre‑millennial
Revelation’s Gog — post‑millennial
Same names, different eras — just like “Babylon.”

There are no resurrected dead living on earth with Gog and Magog.
Revelation’s timeline makes it impossible.
The nations are living nations — not resurrected ones.
The second resurrection happens after Gog and Magog, not before.
Click to expand...

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
tttallison said:
We will have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
“Brother, I’m content to disagree — but only if the disagreement is ours, not the text’s.
If Scripture itself settles the matter, then neither of us gets to ‘agree to disagree.’
We simply submit.
If Scripture leaves the matter open, then disagreement is fine, because God left it open.
So the question isn’t whether we agree — it’s whether the text agrees with either of us.”
 
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tttallison said:
Not sure what you mean by a millennium of resurrected dead people. Revelation 20:5 indicates that the second resurrection occurs after the millennium, and it calls them the dead.

Did they have a chance to reject Christ if they died before Christ was manifested.

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Click to expand...
I think so.
 
OMC said:
“Brother, I’m content to disagree — but only if the disagreement is ours, not the text’s.
If Scripture itself settles the matter, then neither of us gets to ‘agree to disagree.’
We simply submit.
If Scripture leaves the matter open, then disagreement is fine, because God left it open.
So the question isn’t whether we agree — it’s whether the text agrees with either of us.”
Click to expand...

The problem occurs when we can't agree on what the text is saying. If we can use the single shot method, rather than a scatter gun approach, then I am all for discussing it. People have a tendency to hold a certain narrative, and when someone encroaches on that narrative they usually get angry with the offensive party.
 
tttallison said:
The problem occurs when we can't agree on what the text is saying. If we can use the single shot method, rather than a scatter gun approach, then I am all for discussing it. People have a tendency to hold a certain narrative, and when someone encroaches on that narrative they usually get angry with the offensive party
Click to expand...
“Yes — the single‑shot method is the only way to keep the conversation honest.
Narratives create anger.
Text creates clarity.”👍
 
OMC said:
Revelation 20 itself makes your question impossible:
There are no resurrected dead living on earth with Gog and Magog.Revelation’s timeline forbids it.
1. Revelation 20 gives a fixed order — and your proposal reverses it

Here is John’s order:
Nations exist during the millennium “…so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be finished.” (Rev 20:3)
Click to expand...

You say Nations exist during the millennium. Can you be specific in the way you deduce this premise. I am a little slow and cannot hold much more than a single thought at a time.
 
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