What if repentance is not about feeling guilty, regretful or ashamed? How do you define repentance?

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ScooterJackson said:
That what the gnostics claim.

They claim when they sin it was their body out doing sinful things but they themselves had nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...
That is not saying that when we sin, only our flesh is sinning.
Nor that our soul was not involved with what the flesh initially desired to do.

A little knowledge can be used to try to impress others.
But it does just the opposite when that knowledge is misapplied and stumbled over.
 
Soyeong said:
In Proverbs 3:1, it uses the Hebrew word "Torah", so it is certainly referring to obeying the Torah as the way to trust in God in all of our ways it was certainly given in accordance with God's wisdom. Likewise, in Revelation 22:14, those who kept God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Torah, and in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Before Adam and Eve had eaten from either Tree, they were at a crossroads between eternal life and mortality where eating from the Tree of Life would have given them to have eternal life while eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused them to become mortal, and in Deuteronomy 30:11-20, the Israelites were at the same crossroads where Moses placed before them a choice between life and a blessing for obedience to the Torah or death and a curse for disobedience to it. Likewise, God placed cherubim to guard the way back to the Garden and instructed for cherubim to guard the Ark of the Covenant, so we have the same choice of whether we are going to repent. The Bible also repeatedly refers to the Torah as being God's way, such as with Deuteronomy 10:12-13, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, and Psalm 119:1-3.


The Torah is God's commandments, so please explain how you can agree that the Law of Christ does not replace God's commandments while also taking the position that Christ's commandments replace the Torah.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has the character traits that the Torah was given in order to teach us how to embody, so the goal of Torah is to teach us how to love God through embodying His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah (Hebrews 1:3), so the way to love the Son is exactly the same as the way to love the Father and that the commandments of the Son are exactly the same as those of the Father. In John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own set of commandments that are distinct from those of the Father. Likewise, in John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commandments with those of the Father.

The reason why God's Word leads us to God's Word made flesh is because he is the embodiment of it and it was given for the purpose of teaching us how to know, love, worship, believe in, testify about, and be one with him through following his example of embodying it, but the reason why it leads us to him is not so that we can then reject everything that he is and go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness. Christ was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26). Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after their purpose has been fulfilled would be missing the whole point of their tutor.
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The life we live in Jesus Christ is not a rule book of over 600 rules that Israel received.

The Mt Sinai covenant was the old covenant which the Israelites agreed to obey (Exodus 24).

Jesus placed us in a new covenant through His sacrifice on the cross, a covenant of grace.

Agape love towards the brethren and even our enemies is the hallmark of a true Christian.

Philippians 1:9-11
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may
be able to test and prove what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness
that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
 
Genez said:
All that you showed me, and that I understood?
Came to my understanding courtesy of the Holy Spirit.

We have no need for any man to teach us what to think.
Even about what we are being taught by a man.
The Spirit will teach us what to think about all things needing to be understood.
Click to expand...
why does Jesus command men to teach us? mt 28:19

Christ and His apostolic church are one in unity! mt 28:19-20
acts 9:4 eph 5:32

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17-18
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
1 tim 3:15
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

thks
 
more

Don't listen to men?

Jesus commands us to listen and obey men!

Men are commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! mt 28:19

The witnesses of Jesus Christ!
acts 1:8

He who hears you hears me!
Lk 10:16

He who receives the one I send receives me! Jn 13:20

acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles.

acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Acts 16:30
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

1 cor 11:23
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you...

2 thes 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

to reject them is to reject Jesus Christ!

and commandments!

mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

1 thes 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

all the teachings of men!

but you will refuse to believe and obey!

all the teaching of the apostolic church are binding (mt 16:18-29) on all christians includes the 255 dogmas with the decrees of the valid councils!

Amen?
 
amazingrace said:
why does Jesus command men to teach us? mt 28:19

Christ and His apostolic church are one in unity! mt 28:19-20
acts 9:4 eph 5:32

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17-18
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
1 tim 3:15
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

thks
Click to expand...
Right!

As someone here in error lays claim to...
" Jesus is to teach us all directly by the Holy Spirit."

That opens one to demonic counterfeits with no checks and balances.

But if it were true?
That all we need is ourselves and the Holy Spirit?

Why send men to teach?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father ​
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,​

Matthew 28:19
 
Genez said:
That is not saying that when we sin, only our flesh is sinning.
Nor that our soul was not involved with what the flesh initially desired to do.

A little knowledge can be used to try to impress others.
But it does just the opposite when that knowledge is misapplied and stumbled over.
Click to expand...
the claims of gnostics rarely meet the truth, you right without the free will consent there is no sin.

thks
 
Inquisitor said:
The life we live in Jesus Christ is not a rule book of over 600 rules that Israel received.

The Mt Sinai covenant was the old covenant which the Israelites agreed to obey (Exodus 24).

Jesus placed us in a new covenant through His sacrifice on the cross, a covenant of grace.

Agape love towards the brethren and even our enemies is the hallmark of a true Christian.

Philippians 1:9-11
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may
be able to test and prove what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness
that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Click to expand...
Amen! Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
 
Inquisitor said:
The life we live in Jesus Christ is not a rule book of over 600 rules that Israel received.
Click to expand...
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6)

Inquisitor said:
The Mt Sinai covenant was the old covenant which the Israelites agreed to obey (Exodus 24).
Click to expand...
God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so everything that the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about God is eternally and cumulatively valid.

Inquisitor said:
Jesus placed us in a new covenant through His sacrifice on the cross, a covenant of grace.
Click to expand...
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject what he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching, or in order to nullify what he accomplished through the cross, or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Psalm 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, which is why the New Covenant is a covenant of grace.

Inquisitor said:
Agape love towards the brethren and even our enemies is the hallmark of a true Christian.
Click to expand...
Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the reason why those are the greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses is because they are inclusive of all of its other commandments. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so that is the mark of a true Christian.

Inquisitor said:
Philippians 1:9-11
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may
be able to test and prove what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness
that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Click to expand...
The fruit that comes only through God's Word made flesh is not contrary to following his example of embodying God's Word.
 
Soyeong said:
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6)
Click to expand...

To walk in the filling of the Spirit,

And, to live by every word of God.

Just make sure that what you are getting is accurate in translation.
 
Genez said:
All that you showed me, and that I understood?
Came to my understanding courtesy of the Holy Spirit.

We have no need for any man to teach us what to think.
Even about what we are being taught by a man.
The Spirit will teach us what to think about all things needing to be understood.
Click to expand...
" Finally my brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, THINK ON THESE THINGS. Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. " Phil 4:8-9 It seems Paul taught what to think.
 
bytheblood said:
" Finally my brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, THINK ON THESE THINGS. Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. " Phil 4:8-9 It seems Paul taught what to think.
Click to expand...

Phil 4:8-9 It seems Paul taught what to think.

Thank you.
That's the point I was wishing to make.
 
Soyeong said:
Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6)


God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so everything that the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about God is eternally and cumulatively valid.


In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject what he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching, or in order to nullify what he accomplished through the cross, or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Psalm 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, which is why the New Covenant is a covenant of grace.


Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the reason why those are the greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses is because they are inclusive of all of its other commandments. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so that is the mark of a true Christian.


The fruit that comes only through God's Word made flesh is not contrary to following his example of embodying God's Word.
Click to expand...
Didn't Jesus heal on the sabbath? Wasn't that against the Mosaic Law? Wasn't it in the Mosaic law that if caught in adultery you had to be stoned to death? Yet Jesus saved a woman who had been caught in the very act of adultery. Jesus wasn't teaching those who believe in Him to follow the Mosaic law , but the law of love. " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances( the law) THAT WAS AGAINST US, and took it OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS. Colossians 2:14 He already fulfilled the law because we COULDN'T, no one could, because if you broke one it was just like you broke them all. " For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting you souls, saying, You must be circumcised (part of the Mosaic law), and keep the law: to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Paul and Silas, men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, TO LAY NO GREATER BURDEN then these things; That you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep your selves, you shall do well. Fare you well." Acts 15:24-29. The Apostles didn't even want Gentile believers to be burdened with having to follow the Mosaic Law, but you do. You, if you are trying to fulfill the Mosaic law, are saying that what Jesus did, fulfilling the law, wasn't enough and you want to be your own savior. Consider your ways.
 
Genez said:
Right!

As someone here in error lays claim to...
" Jesus is to teach us all directly by the Holy Spirit."

That opens one to demonic counterfeits with no checks and balances.

But if it were true?
That all we need is ourselves and the Holy Spirit?

Why send men to teach?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father ​
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,​

Matthew 28:19
Click to expand...
I Agree!

the apostles know the truth, acts 2:42 Jn 8:32

the Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth. Jn 16:13

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:1-3

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17 mt 28:19

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

Must Hear Christ!
matt 3:17

Must hear the Church!
Matt 18:17 matt 28:19 acts 1:8

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail against the one, holy, Catholics,
& apostolic church founded by Christ on peter and the apostles!
Matt 16:18-19

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach & sanctify all men unto eternal salvation of all men! matt 28:19-20

Christ and His church are one: Acts 9:4 mystical communion: eph 5:32


Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

thks
 
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