Testing the Waters
- Thread starter RWRiley
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I'd be interested how you would do this with the applicable verses ... the Pauline verses ...this might be difficult in with the 4102 and 4103 nouns and adjectives ... fact of the matter, I see you having some difficulty with a lot of the verb, as well? Also, it is allowable to use more than. one English word (as equivalent with piste), the Greek word can, indeed, have different English words in it stable to ride, but once you assign any English word to be owned by that Greek word, you can never use that English word again, for any other Greek word (this is termed being concordantly consistent). That is, for all of these many Pauline words (4100, 4102, 4103) I have just use the word forms of "trust" ... they do work consistently, without any problems, but you are correct about them not always capturing all of the intended nuance of the specific contexts .... however, that's the very nature of translations! That is, if the word choice completely failed at conveying what was intended, then that word choice is wrong ... and there would be a good chance that it would then be actually wrong in the other instances as well. the word choice has to "fit" all instances ... perhaps not well, like a tailored suit, but fit nevertheless. This would be where you then looked for an optional word choice, to also be stabled with your first word choice .. two or more word choices that now belonged to only the one Greek word; their use then dependent upon the verse context.
Since you did not like my overall use of the "trust" word forms ... I'd be very interested in seeing what alternate English words you have in mind?
what is the song ... the lyrics, and the tune? Honestly, I do not understand the term "worship" ... God doesn't "need" that? Now, "thanks, " this I can grasp as something you direct towards God, but "worship" sounds a little pagan ... to me.
It all depends on what and how your trusting in.
If your trusting in what Jesus said and did to receive His Spirit, that will avail nothing.
If you trust in the fact He accepted your surrendered life, and will keep and protect the surrendered life, that will avail everything.
A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, this understanding can't be perverted.
Again, Watchman ... you dodge and dip with zest. I've posted some very speciric things, and ask you some ver specifi matters... and you just puff and fluff back at me. Give it a rest, why don't you? Or perhaps ... you are unable to do so?
Be specific, please ... or get out of my face!
Ahhh ... I tumbled on the music ... just clicked on th picture of tht old sweaty man in the brown attire, with the lovely chain necklace ... Good music, is it yours or an AI rendering? Can you provide me with th text of the lyrics .. I'd like to see just how scriptural they are? I really do not grasp the purpose of music in a "church" gathering? Doe this constitute "worship" ... whatever that might be? Or is it to enhance some emotional spell over the particiipants? I don't get it ... sorry, I've honestly tried, but just do not get it .. am not comfortable with it. Doe that mean I am bond for hell? LOL
why is your hair silver blond in the one picture and in the one with the horse ... unicorn? ... some other color? Do you actually have a horse? ... a unicorn?
Welcome!
Hi RWRiley, I admit to being a little slow to welcome you, but I like your approach. I have extensively studied the Pauline's, and I will happily defend them all as authentic, but my dating differs from what is common. I will look for your discussion in the Bible Forum. And I would ask if you have run across the term "euthousiamos" in your studies? I find it interesting in light of 2 Tim 3:!6.
The Greek word enthousiasmos (ἐνθουσιασμός), which is the root of the English word "enthusiasm" and originally meant "inspiration or possession by a god", is not used anywhere in the Greek New Testament ... I do, however, see the word theopneustos {θεόπνευστος 2315 A-NSF} ... it is a "-tos" endimng word, which conveys the idea of being "able" ...hence my reading of it as a~God-breathable [one] {2315 A-NSF} .. it is an adjective, referring back to the noun graphE {1124 N-NSF} ... both words are nominative singular feminine (NSF) ....
Here is my reading of this verse ... along with the Greek, the transliteration, and th grammatical coding ... my reading is a bit different from most English readings ... mine is the more accurate! LOL
Note ... the asterisk indicates that there is a source text variation; that is, the Alexandrian leaning texts use the word elegmon ...whereas the Byzantine texts use elegchon ..." to~a~reproof" instead of "to~a~conviction" ... very similar looking words im the Greek
So then, Rewriter ...why this particular verse ... what interests you about this ... want to have a discussion?
3:16* every writing, a~God-breathable and beneficial [one] towards a~teaching; towards a~reproof;
towards an~on-up-straightening; towards the adolescent-disciplining, in with~a~correction,
Πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν, πρὸς ἔλεγχον, πρὸς ἐπανόρθωσιν, πρὸς παιδείαν
τὴν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ·
pasa graphE theopneustos kai Ophelimos pros didaskalian pros elegchon pros epanorthOsin pros paideian
tEn en dikaiosunEi+
every [one] {3956 A-NSF} a~writing {1124 N-NSF} a~God-breathable [one] {2315 A-NSF} and {2532 CONJ} a~beneficial [one]{5624 A-NSF} towards {4314 PREP} to~a~teaching {1319 N-ASF} towards {4314 PREP} to~a~reproof {1650 N-ASM} towards{4314 PREP} to~an~on-up-straightening {1882 N-ASF} towards {4314 PREP} to~an~adolescent-discipline {3809 N-ASF} to~the [one] {3588 T-ASF} in {1722 PREP} unto~a~correction {1343 N-DSF}
3:16* Πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν, πρὸς
{ ἔλεγχον RP HF F35 TR OC ♦ ἐλεγμόν TH SBL NA WH }, πρὸς ἐπανόρθωσιν, πρὸς παιδείαν τὴν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ·
3:16* Different Word
ἔλεγχον RP HF F35 TR OC
elegchon
to~a~reproof {1650 N-ASM}
--------------------------
to~a~conviction {1648b N-ASM}
*elegmon
ἐλεγμόν TH SBL NA WH
[1]
Welcome to the site, amd I look forward to reading your thoughts on one I love and appreciate so deeply.
Thank you for your translation. My studies suggest that it was used to describe scriptures or sacred writings, but that it also carried connotations that might not have been desirable in the late 60's or early 70's, the time frame in which I would date 2 Timothy, and thus would have been avoided by Paul, even though I see hints that the connotations would have been relevant in some of Paul's other works, as well as in John.
Before getting into too deep a discussion though, I would warn you that I have a tendency to poke at the difficult portions of scripture, where easy answers are hard to come by, and seek to make sense of them. I thus put a parenthetical "thing" in 1 John 5:8 instead of "in agreement" ("one (thing")).
You'd have to leave me out of any Gospel discussions ... I might go with something from Luke, but I 'd tend to ignore it if it were not captivating! Oh .... 1John ... nope, not my interest. As for 2Timothy ... I get the sense that you might not be all that convinced with the Pastorals being Pauline ... i think we think along the same lines on that.
Early 60's and 70"s .. are we talking about Rock and Roll music? But if you are talking about the Pastorals ... I'd peg them as even a generation, or more, later than than ...
Did you want to talk about your verse 3:16 ... or about that other word, whereever you are getting that one from?
Oh, I am fully convinced that the Pastorals are Pauline. I date them to after Nero's death. I maintain that Paul was exiled by Nero to Spain and pardoned by either Galba or Otho, allowing him to travel again and write. Vitellius would likely have rearrested Paul if he had the time to spare, and Vespasian did end up with the time, and likely executed Paul, likely after 70 CE and the fall of the Jerusalem temple, maybe as late as 73, but I doubt that Paul lived that long. But the early church wanted to make nice with Vespasian in the aftermath of the 1st Jewish War, they really did not like being persecuted, and thus concocted reasons to deny any reason for Rome to want to execute Paul. These actions included writing Luke-Acts and rewriting Mark and John among other actions.
(REwriter)
Oh, I am fully convinced that the Pastorals are Pauline.
(Robinm)
In the 13 epistles historically associated with Paul there are 6753 different word-forms (inflections, parsings, and spellings) ..in the Pastorals there 1930 ... However, there are only 666 commonly used word between the Pastorals and the Pauline epistles ... that is, 1264 of the 1930 different Pastoral word-forms (65.49%) were never used by the Apostle Paulos in his ten previously written epistles (compiled over a span of about twelve years).
If you were a FBI profiler ... you would conclude that the same author was not the case.