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Thanks, Len. I appreciate your comments. I would just challenge the assertion that God is “bound” by his creations. If God creates something as an extension of himself, those things reflect his qualities. Thus, they are not independent of Him. For instance, John 1 informs us that the Logos...

Not sure I understand what you are saying. I agree we have a spirit, and God is Spirit. Thus, our spiritual beings would also be derived from His being. If our beings are entirely divorced from God…spiritual, physical, intellectual, etc, then we dont live and move and have our beings in Him...

But it does say, “In him we live and move and have our being“ (Acts 17:28). So I would take that to mean not only our physical bodies, but the time and space we exist in as well. I believe that God all we have, are and exist in is an extension of God, himself. He is life, reality, truth and...

And to ask you a question: How do you suppose God created the universe if he does not have a past, present or future? How can someone do something ”new” if they exist in a state of timelessness where neither “new” nor “old” is a possibility?

I dont mind that illustration. I am fine with the idea that God, in his creation has set certain boundaries for us. I have never thought that free will is without limitation. Certainly the Bible, and common sense, indicates to us that God has “determined allotted periods and boundaries of...

Fair enough. I agree that much of the language in Revelation is figurative. However, it is figurative of passing time in which God provides for the needs of his people. And, I agree with you that that provision is grounded in the work of Christ. A figure of speech still means something, even...

Thanks for your reply, Eli. Maybe the best way to ponder this is by process of elimination. I agree that our understanding of eternity and timelessness moves far outside human comprehension. And, as you mentioned, time itself is a bit of a mystery. However, since God has chosen to reveal...

What if God’s nature includes time? And if God currently dwells in a timeless eternity with no past, present or future, doesn’t that contradict the picture we see in Revelation with the tree of life yielding fruit each month? Eternity, imo, implies an endless span of time, not a timeless state.

Thanks for your reply. I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. Allow me to explain… First, when we speak of essence, we. are talking about God’s being or ontology. Essence is defined as “the permanent as contrasted with accidental element of being.” Thus, if part of who God is by...

As I understand it, Open Theology argues that God knows all that can be known, but does not know the free will choices of His creation. So, while God may know all possible contingencies, he does not know in actuality what free will beings will actually choose. Thus, the future is “open“ to...

Ha, well I am not an atemporalist, but I wouldn’t classify myself as an open theist. I do believe God is omniscient and that He exists outside our understanding of time…but still hold to the idea that He exists in time as part of His nature. I find it would be hard to understand God’s genuine...

You said “Before the creation there is no time for all things go on the same with nothing to be scheduled.” This Time, as I understand it, is a way of measuring motion through space. However, the point of this thread is not so much about defining what time is, or different equations that try...

Hey Blade, thanks for replying. I think all of these views account for these scriptures. The atemporalist would say that God’s eternal nature shows that he stands outside time and that a day is as a thousands years suggests he is not subject to time as we are. Whereas the temporalist would...

I dont know what you mean by me being “new to this” or that I haven’t “really looked into the concept of time at all.” I’m not sure if thats just your way of suggesting I sound silly or that you know a lot more than me. I’m more than happy to learn, but I guess you’ll need to do more than...

Not trying to be contrary, but just to be clear.… are you suggesting that people can be saved without surrendering to God’s will?

Thank you all for replying. I will just try to address a couple of the points I see have been made several times… The metatemporal view also holds that God created time. Yet that does not mean God does not operate in time. He can both be the creator of our time and exist in time. So I dont...

This is an interesting topic. I have created a new thread entitled “God and Time” that should post soon. I would be happy to engage in this topic with you more there so as not to derail this conversation.

An interesting philosophical concept to consider is the notion of God’s relationship to time. Many Christian are quick to claim that God is not subject to time. This view is known as atemporalism. At first glance, this view seems sound as it affirms God’s immutability, highlights God’s...

I find it interesting that one of the things that angered Jesus about the Pharisees is they refused to be baptized by John. If John’s baptism was from heaven and Christ denounced those who rejected it, how much more should we submit to Christ’s command to be baptized in the name of the Father...

This is quite unfortunate. Baptism is about identifying oneself with Christ, repenting of sins and making Christ the Lord of our life. It is not about identifying with a denomination. As Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism is supposed to unify us since we are all baptized into one...