1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Reign

[shroom2]

You should be careful with the name dropping...since you dont know me or what i believe.
I dont rant rave or ridicule, nor is my mind closed.

My apologies, Abiding. Sorry to lump you in with Pete & Re-Pete.

 

[Strangelove]

Sorry for the delay... I'm painting the deck railing.


I believe what it says. If people do not come to Jerusalem, no rain for them.

There will be three groups of people in the millennial kingdom. Christians (in their new spiritual bodies), OT believers (resurrected and in their new bodies) and people who made it through the trib. They will still have mortal bodies, and will procreate, and die (they will be judged at the white throne judgement). We will be reigning with Christ, as will I believe the OT believers. I think (but am not certain) the only ones who will have to show up at Jerusalem annually will be the mortals.

Christ will be ruling firmly (with a rod of iron). There will be perfect living conditions, plenty of food, safety, no disease. Isaiah 65:17-25.

I'm looking forward to it!

The ones who reject Jesus, are they sinners yes or no?

 

[Strangelove]

According to you we are in it right now, so I would have to say yes and lots of it, just look around and see for yourself. The church is on the earth and we are body, flesh and bones with no resurrected bodies yet. So you can't spiritualize that away.

Well, according to YOU...will there be sinning in YOUR millenial kingdom?

I wonder why premillers are sooooooo evasive of this?

 

[Abiding]

 

[Strangelove]

lolz....is that one of the evasive OT believers in a glorified body living on Earth?

To sin or not to sin that is the question.

 

[shroom2]

I do not believe the resurrected OT believers in their glorified bodies will sin. The ones who may have the option to do so are the mortals who made it through the trib.

But...this is an interesting subject...... We have genuine free will. We can choose to sin, or not sin. We can choose to accept salvation, or to reject it. In the afterlife, even with glorified bodies, we will still have genuine free will. God will not override free will. He will not make us not sin. So will there still be the option of disobeying God?

I admit I do not know..... but am looking forward to finding out.

Of course, if you believe that man does NOT have free will to start with, no prob. God will just make us do whatever He wants. But that is not love.

 

[Strangelove]

I do not believe the resurrected OT believers in their glorified bodies will sin.The ones who may have the option to do so are the mortals who made it through the trib.

Ok then...Zech 14.....

So are the people getting punished with droughts for not visiting Jesus in Jerusalem SINNERS OR NOT?

They reject Jesus the King and are dealt with by the Lord.

Punished for what?

Are they sinning?

YES OR NO?

 

[shroom2]

Are they sinning?

YES OR NO?

Can you read, strangelove?

I admit I do not know..... but am looking forward to finding out.

But if people are supposed to go to Jerusalem and choose not to go and are punished for it, then it seems the answer is yes, they are sinning.

 

[Strangelove]

Can you read, strangelove?

But if people are supposed to go to Jerusalem and choose not to go and are punished for it, then it seems the answer is yes, they are sinning.

Great so theres plenty of sinning going on while satan is bound.

Are the other premillers willing to admit this and stop using the fact that people are sinning in this age to prove that satan cannot possibly be bound now?

 

[shroom2]

Great so theres plenty of sinning going on while satan is bound.

Are the other premillers willing to admit this and stop using the fact that people are sinning in this age to prove that satan cannot possibly be bound now?

Is that the point you were trying to make by doggedly pursuing a YES or NO answer? Just to "prove" that satan can be bound now (he's not) and people still sin? Is this how you're trying to "prove" amill is the truth? (it's not)

 

[Strangelove]

Is that the point you were trying to make by doggedly pursuing a YES or NO answer? Just to "prove" that satan can be bound now (he's not) and people still sin?

Yes that was the point I was trying to prove.

And you've admitted that satan can be bound and still have people on earth sinning their socks off.

Thank you for your co-operation Shroom.

Lets see if Red thinks..

a) Satan can be bound and it be possible that people on Earth are sinning.
b) Zech 14 is NOT chronological in its prophecy

redman?

Is this how you're trying to "prove" amill is the truth? (it's not)

Erm...no, just the satan being bound thing obviously.

It's a major sticking point for premillers.

If I can prove that in the premil view satan is bound and ALSO people are running around and sinning and warring and rejecting Christ (which I have proven) then why cant the same thing apply in the amil view?

The satan bound objection by premillers is therefore NULLIFIED.

 

[shroom2]

...The satan bound objection by premillers is therefore NULLIFIED.

Except for what the bible says, of course.

1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Eph 6:
11) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is not bound.

 

[Red33]

Yes that was the point I was trying to prove.

And you've admitted that satan can be bound and still have people on earth sinning their socks off.

Thank you for your co-operation Shroom.

Lets see if Red thinks..

a) Satan can be bound and it be possible that people on Earth are sinning.
b) Zech 14 is NOT chronological in its prophecy

redman?

Erm...no, just the satan being bound thing obviously.

It's a major sticking point for premillers.

If I can prove that in the premil view satan is bound and ALSO people are running around and sinning and wnarring and rejecting Christ (which I have proven) then why cant the same thing apply in the amil view?

The satan bound objection by premillers is therefore NULLIFIED.

People don't need to be tempted outwardly by the devil in order to sin. We have the desires, the appetites, the affections and the lust of the flesh within through the old sin nature that is more than enough to make you and I sin. We have a deceitful heart that is full of what Jesus described in (Mt 15:18,19). Paul explained that in (Rom 7) and never mentioned the devil or Satan. However, Satan has not been bound yet and we are not living in the millennial kingdom reign but we are living in God's representative body on the earth, made up of every believer, both of the Jew and of the Gentile, who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and make up the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1Tim 3:15). They do not have their glorified bodies yet and have weaknesses that God's grace must be sufficient for (2Cor 12:9).

When Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years, after the great tribulation has been consummated by the second coming of Christ (Rev 20:1-3), the outside influence of the principalities and powers of the air (Eph 2:2), the rulers of darkness, the spiritual wickedness in high places and the god of this world system will not have the freedom to deceive the people of the nations freely (Eph 6:12, 2Cor 4:4). Satan will not be able to blind the minds that believe not for 1,000 years, nor will he be able to seek whom he can devour (1Pt 5:8), nor sift believers as wheat (Lk 22:31), nor deceive as the father of all lies nor breath out his murdering slanders (Jn 8:44) nor accuse the brethren day and night (Rev 12:10), for he will be bound and sealed in a pit.

Strangedoc, that is as far as I will go with you, lest you continue to mock and ridicule the sacredness of the scriptures and the understanding that has been given through the Spirit to those that are meek and have studied to show themselves approved or have put themselves under and learned from those that teach the word and sound doctrine and have paid a dear price for what they know and having lived the faith that they have been given through a laid down life.

 

[Strangelove]

Except for what the bible says, of course.

1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Eph 6:
11) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is not bound.

Well if there are sinners in the millenium then satan is having the same effect.

In the millenium..

People are being devoured by the devil
He's blinding people.
Some are standing against his wiles.
Theres wickedness in the world.

No difference.

You cant use that argument anymore. It's invalid.

Sinners in the millenium prove this. According to Zech 14 theres even WARS going on. Notwithstanding your dubious assertion that the chapter is not ordered chronologically.

 

[Strangelove]

People don't need to be tempted outwardly by the devil in order to sin. We have the desires, the appetites, the affections and the lust of the flesh within through the old sin nature that is more than enough to make you and I sin. We have a deceitful heart that is full of what Jesus described in (Mt 15:18,19). Paul explained that in (Rom 7) and never mentioned the devil or Satan. However, Satan has not been bound yet and we are not living in the millennial kingdom reign but we are living in God's representative body on the earth, made up of every believer, both of the Jew and of the Gentile, who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and make up the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1Tim 3:15). They do not have their glorified bodies yet and have weaknesses that God's grace must be sufficient for (2Cor 12:9).

When Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years, after the great tribulation has been consummated by the second coming of Christ (Rev 20:1-3), the outside influence of the principalities and powers of the air (Eph 2:2), the rulers of darkness, the spiritual wickedness in high places and the god of this world system will not have the freedom to deceive the people of the nations freely (Eph 6:12, 2Cor 4:4). Satan will not be able to blind the minds that believe not for 1,000 years, nor will he be able to seek whom he can devour (1Pt 5:8), nor sift believers as wheat (Lk 22:31), nor deceive as the father of all lies nor breath out his murdering slanders (Jn 8:44) nor accuse the brethren day and night (Rev 12:10), for he will be bound and sealed in a pit.

Strangedoc, that is as far as I will go with you, lest you continue to mock and ridicule the sacredness of the scriptures and the understanding that has been given through the Spirit to those that are meek and have studied to show themselves approved or have put themselves under and learned from those that teach the word and sound doctrine and have paid a dear price for what they know and having lived the faith that they have been given through a laid down life.

Why are there sinners in the millenium then? If satan has been bound and cant deceive them?

 

[shroom2]

Well if there are sinners in the millenium then satan is having the same effect.

In the millenium..

People are being devoured by the devil

No, he will be bound.

He's blinding people.

No, he will be bound

Some are standing against his wiles.

He will not be around to stand against.

Theres wickedness in the world.

There will be people that still have their sin nature. As we do now. And as I said, I admit I do not fully understand this.

No difference.

Big difference

You cant use that argument anymore. It's invalid.

No, it is not. Satan is not currently bound, but he will be.

Sinners in the millenium prove this. According to Zech 14 theres even WARS going on. Notwithstanding your dubious assertion that the chapter is not ordered chronologically.

The war will be at the end of the trib, preceding the millennial kingdom.

 

[1still_waters]

Even if Satan is 100% bound, there is still sinful man with his sinful nature populating the world. That's enough to create tons of damage. Also if Satan is totally bound, there is still room for his minion demons to be swarming the Earth creating havoc.

 

[Strangelove]

No, he will be bound.


No, he will be bound


He will not be around to stand against.


There will be people that still have their sin nature. As we do now. And as I said, I admit I do not fully understand this.


Big difference


No, it is not. Satan is not currently bound, but he will be.


The war will be at the end of the trib, preceding the millennial kingdom.

Everything apart from the bold blue statement is not adding to the debate.

You have a habit of doing this Shroom. Breaking down peoples posts and simply restating your own opinion. It's more than a little childish. I have an image of you curling your lip and stamping your feet while you are saying these things.

Maybe you should have just thought about the blue bit.

 

[shroom2]

Everything apart from the bold blue statement is not adding to the debate.

You have a habit of doing this Shroom. Breaking down peoples posts and simply restating your own opinion. It's more than a little childish. I have an image of you curling your lip and stamping your feet while you are saying these things.

You cannot rebut what I say so you resort to reproving my debate technique and insults. You can really be quite an ass.

Maybe you should have just thought about the blue bit.

Maybe you should think about it.

 

[Tobby17]

RED33, It will do you a lot of good if you don't reply some people and if you'd stop arguing.. You always loose anyway .. Just Kidding..

But it's time to end all these and get matured. Concentrate more on God..

Or what yer thinking?