A lady

[Jullianna]

I am very thankful for a couple of plain-talkin' older texan stepbrothers who set me straight from a very early age. They told me that if I wanted to be treated like a lady, I should ACT like one.

P.S... Thanks for getting this thread back on track, arwen. Was trying to go ahead and respond to the same ole tired arguments we've heard over...and over..and over in here before the merry-go-round started spinning too fast.

 

[WhiteWolfOfTheBlackForest]

Julianna's post in the 'I have a bad view of women in general' thread has gotten me thinking. The post was saying that it takes strength to be a lady- and being a lady is not a sign of weakness that many people believe it may be (hope you don't mind that I referenced you, Jullianna). So my question to you is, what does it take to be a lady? What does this look like to you? Is it the Proverbs woman, or something altogether different? Guys, feel free to post, your perspective is welcome here.

IMO, every person will have a different opinion and thought what it takes to be a 'lady'. I personally think confidence and commitment within the principals of the bible in this case, makes a true Christian woman. Confidence and knowing where you stand makes one strong, for a stronger mind will govern the body. Thus, I believe confidence comes from being yourself and alas, not a lot of people stay true to themselves and ourselves we find in God.

 

[lil_christian]

I believe you are completely wrong. Ever since the feminist movement, western society has attempted to close the gap between the difference in appearance of the two genders. And just like with many cultural trends, the church has bought in. But in mark 10:6 Jesus says that God purposely placed the distinction their from the beginning, and Deuteronomy 22:5 teaches that men and women are to have a completely different style of clothing.

Now, if a woman specifically desires not to wear make-up (for some unknown reason), that is not in and of itself a sin, but if she fails to make a distinction between her physical adornment and that which typically pertains to a man, that is a sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9 says something very similar with regards to the conduct of men, it teaches that if a man practices and behaves in a feminine manner, he is not even saved.

The reason why this issue is important is that when we start to lose our imagery distinction between the genders, we start to lose the biblical distintion of requirments for the two genders. That will place us in conflict with the work of God desires to complete on this earth. He has designed us genetically different so that we can full fill different purposes spiritually and practically: 1 Timothy 2:12, Titus 2:4-5, 1 Corinthians 11, Ephesians 5:22-33, proverbs 31, 1 Timothy 5:8 etc

Sooo because I don't wear makeup, nor do I desire to, because I don't feel that God has made me beautiful just the way I am, I'm suddenly partial to the feminist movement and 'kind of creepy'?? Because I feel more comfortable in jeans and a t-shirt, I'm in sin? Whaaaat?

C'mon, this is borderline legalism.

There's a BIG self esteem problem out there. A lot of girls my age wear makeup to make themselves look more beautiful so they can feel more accepted. Ummm...that's a big problem. So you saying you should wear makeup or else you look creepy? You're just encouraging it.

Plus, we are not bound to the old laws anymore. Jesus did for us what the law could not. We are not saved by our works and our clothing and adornment are not the deciding factors for who is Christian and who isn't. (Disclaimer: I'm not saying wear anything under the sun, because immodesty is something we need to look out for.)

(I'm sorry, I should know better than to bring up an older post in a forum, but I just can't help but not leave this one alone.)

 

[HSfilledlady]

New Testament (under the new covenant, not the law) reference regarding all women (not just wives) not to have authority over any men (not just husbands) in any of the churches (not a specific church where some women were misbehaving as some claim) Paul had planted.

Note: boys are not men.


2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— [SUP]2 [/SUP]for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

While I do respect your right to your interpretation of these scriptures, I do not agree with it.

 

[Jullianna]

I understand, but please forgive me if I interpreted the scripture in any way. That was never my intention. My sole intent was to post the scripture and let it speak for itself.

Paul sets it out very clearly in verses 11 and 12, and gives his sole reason for saying it in 13 an 14, leaving us no need for speculation or interpretation. I would sincerely be interested in reading any scripture you may have to the contrary.

 

[SeanS]

I wonder if being a lady is dependent on how men treat us to begin with- or- if how we act/present ourselves influences how we are treated by men. In other words, are there men who want to treat woman as ladies these days? Maybe it is a bad sampling (I know not all guys are like this), but i've encountered a few guys (christian and non-christian) who do not treat woman as they should be treated in my opinion. In the past, I've had a few guy-friends who viewed me as 'one of the guys', and would treat other girls more respectively. It made me think 'What?! Am i chop liver here?!' Do we teach men how to treat us? A part of me thought that I should begin to expect more out of men, and out of myself. We can't demand respect, but I think we can foster the environment for it. Are my expectations too high? Or not high enough? It is too much to ask to be treated like a lady?

Hey arwen, 90% of guys (christian and non-christian) will treat you in what ever way they can get away with, maybe not always at first, but definitely when the heat of a relationship gets turned up. But you shouldnt be interested in that 90% anyway. Look, if your gonna trust a man to be your spiritual leader for the rest of your life, one of the most basic concepts he should understand is the length of self-sacrifice he must go to for your spiritual/emotional well being (ephisians 5:25) no matter how foolish you might act.

 

[Nautilus]

I wonder if being a lady is dependent on how men treat us to begin with- or- if how we act/present ourselves influences how we are treated by men. In other words, are there men who want to treat woman as ladies these days? Maybe it is a bad sampling (I know not all guys are like this), but i've encountered a few guys (christian and non-christian) who do not treat woman as they should be treated in my opinion. In the past, I've had a few guy-friends who viewed me as 'one of the guys', and would treat other girls more respectively. It made me think 'What?! Am i chop liver here?!' Do we teach men how to treat us? A part of me thought that I should begin to expect more out of men, and out of myself. We can't demand respect, but I think we can foster the environment for it. Are my expectations too high? Or not high enough? It is too much to ask to be treated like a lady?

As beautiful as you are, I wouldn't worry about finding the right guy

 

[SeanS]

As beautiful as you are, I wouldn't worry about finding the right guy

now, that wouldnt be the right way to approach the situation

 

[MrHonest]

Women are more often sensitive than men. Women can feed babies closely and provide a very nurturing feeling to boys, girls, women and men. As children: young girls are often treated with more attention, not because they're handicapped in anyway, but because they are often more emotionally sensitive to new situations. A girl can be a tom-boy but when the right guy comes along she wants to be a lady.

Women can be tough too. Tougher than some guys but that does not make them at all men. Equality in gender should never be a goal because we were made different for a reason. We each have our place respectively and are both equally important. The woman can take the leadership role which is commonly recognized to belong to the man if the man can not lead correctly. God being first in all things. If a man can not lead his family and the woman can, more power to her.

A woman is awesome because she can have a baby and suffer birth and live as if she does not feel a pain every month that makes her sensitive to certain situations. She is a supporter and a leader both. She is the other half of the man and can perfectly do all things man can but is not always meant to because of her naturally designed balance within her to know that God made things balanced for His plan.

Thats what I see. Why I see her as a supporter more than a leader is because women always tend to behave submissive to newer situations. Women are equally as intelligent as men I respect women a lot and like I said they're awesome. If I insulted anyone I'm really sorry

 

[MrHonest]

I notice that non-christian women are really submissive to a new boyfriend. They change their likes and behavior for them too without even realizing until the very end. We all like to act like our new friends but worldly women take it a lot farther. Worldly guys who fall for a girl and they change their behavior other guys will point this out to prevent this new change. A lot of times the woman will change who they are if they really want to proceed through with this type of dating.

Christian women are awesome for being strong and keeping their relationship with God first. That is the most important thing in all this is keeping God first. Christian women avoid changing themselves at all and always ask,"Is this right for my relationship with God?" If they don't then they submit to being a worldly woman. Christian guys will more than likely present the whole relationship from the beginning saying: I love God and if you do not then we probably shouldn't start unless we both accept God first. Of course both man and woman can start a relationship both ways except the difference is women are more likely to submit to a worldly woman's behavior if they get too desperate. God loves us and made us special! Don't stop being special because you think you need someone's attention God's attention is always best!

These are my opinions and can travel through time

 

[Jullianna]

I read some good stuff in your posts, Mr Honest. I think few people understand the strength, godly wisdom and spiritual maturity submission requires. Christ showed us this clearly:

Luke 2: 49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?” 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.

51 Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Luke 22: 39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

The world looks at the word "submission" and sees weakness. I look at it and see love. (John 14:15)

 

[Stuey]

3 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,[SUP]2 [/SUP]when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, [SUP]6 [/SUP]like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

 

[Jullianna]

That's one of my favorite scriptures, Stuey. Have used it in a lot of avatars. As a personal reminder...I need those. I'm a little...umm....stubborn

 

[Powemm]

God made quiet, yet strong enough to stand up.. Made me forgiving and merciful yet how to respond in grace..
Made me gentle , as well as knowledgeable yet with humility, show no pride .. Gave me wisdom in order to discern.. Feet to help someone who can't walk themselves .. Arms to catch , hug, or pray for the person dropping in front of me .. Putting definitions on me doesn't define me as a lady... I'm from the south.. we say yes ma'am and no sir, take food to a sick neighbor.. Roll up our sleeves to feed a neighbors cows or change a tire on a truck.. God equipped all of us in order to "walk out" who He is through us individually.. godly words come out When Godly thoughts are applied.. actions in this arena also will will match up.. When all are glorifying God and His Kingdom.. Who really has time to look at what our neighbor is doing or not
Let alone apply methods and labels to their gender? Weak is as weak does , in Christ I am neither weak or a victim.. So exactly "WHO" is applying the labels? God said he will cloth me and that He has already defined me before my
Mother knew me in her womb.. Not by standards or labels
of any man..

When a woman knows herself in Christ and Knows God.. She no longer want to run to the curb and meet a man .., but waits for the gentleman to come knocking patiently in christ .. .. know how valuable you are to God, you'll know your worth ..
know gods character, you'll know of it's God coming out of a person as there should be a reflection of him coming out in each
One of us.. I've seen men with feminine attributes as well as women with brute strength .. All are reflections of who God is ..who are we to question the vessel by Wich he comes in?
Less we forget, Christ came riding in on a mule when He could have ridden in on a chariot

 

[paulr]

My view of lady is that She creates her own identity like men. The world tries to shadow that. Few examples from Bible,ladies who have a staggering image in faith have stood better than men's examples. Like - Ruth, Esther from Old testaments. Going forwards Martha and Mary in new testament. A spiritual lady will prefer over everything else her Spiritual life and then her other responsibilities. Make up or not is purely a individuals choice but the best jewel for a women is Her identity in Christ.

 

[Nautilus]

growing up in the south I guess we have two versions of ladies both miles apart. There is the stereotypical deubtantesouthern belle who is all manners and sirs and ma'ams and proper like. Always has on make up and a dress and her hair done. Or there is the girl in jeans and a t-shirt with boots on her hair in a ponytail that isn't afraid to get her hands dirty and looks great with no makeup already. the second one is my personal favorite.

 

[Jullianna]

Nautilus, growing up in the south, I’m sure the term Steel Magnolia is a familiar one. J These are the ladies who raised me. Women of tremendous faith, integrity, character, and manners, who weren’t afraid to slap you silly if you didn’t know how to conduct yourself properly. They were not only comfortable in the presence of nobility, but were unafraid to tend gardens, slaughter cattle/poultry, fish for their supper, mend fences, cook up a storm….and they sure didn’t worry that a sweaty little redhaired tomboy who needed loved on might be wrinkling their clothes. J I am thankful every day for their teaching, their faith and their prayers. I don’t know who or where I would be now without them. I pray I can be that for others.

 

[Jullianna]

[video=youtube;p0iOEOtSyB0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0iOEOtSyB0[/video]

Here's the link if it doesn't work for you: Billy Joel - She's Got A Way (HQ with lyrics) - YouTube

 

[DuchessAimee]

That's one of my favorite scriptures, Stuey. Have used it in a lot of avatars. As a personal reminder...I need those. I'm a little...umm....stubborn

*gasp* Never!

 

[surprisingrose]

What a sweet song. I always pray the Lord help me be that kind of lady. Want to inspire, lift up and encourage my man. When God sends one . In the mean time will enjoy being a lady for my God. Thanks for sharing.