I think it's pretty clear what he's talking about.
So you're saying that killing humans is okay because the world is "overpopulated"?
Abortion and birth controll right or wrong
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I think it's pretty clear what he's talking about.
So you're saying that killing humans is okay because the world is "overpopulated"?
well kill the few eagles left they go extinct. sad to say but kill a human and overall the world will never notice. And before someone is like that could have been the kid who cured cancer...yeah well it also could have tbeen the next columbine, virginia tech, or sandy hook shooter...but people never think of that
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Jordache
Guest
Well, to be accurate homosexuals and homosapiens are both made in the image of God, but in a fallen world our image has been covered over.
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Batman007
Guest
I actually wasn't sure what he was talking about, that's why I asked..?
And I'm not necessarily going to get into that because my view is pretty controversial, but I have to say that saving potential human lives wouldn't be at the top of my priority, but rather improving the lives of those already alive.
I'm pro-choice, but I think abortions should be few and far between. Making them illegal will not stop them, it will make women seek desperate measures to still obtain one, often killing her in the process. Women who cannot support children will be forced into poverty. The children will have horrible lives. Child care in America's absolutely atrocious compared to other countries, but that's never mentioned. People say abortion needs to be illegal and all the problems will be gone, but they don't realize that will cause so many more problems for these families. It's statistically proven that higher abortion rates lowers crime and poverty, and vise versa. Let's find a way to improve birth control so these women stop getting pregnant. Let's find a way to prevent rapes. Let's improve child care so women who otherwise couldn't afford to have children can, and maybe she wouldn't get an abortion.
Making abortion illegal is not going to solve our problems. Finding ways for these women to feel like there are better options will. Why does nobody ever bring that up?
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BarlyGurl
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Batman007
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Tintin
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Lightwalker
Guest
Ma'am, murder is murder, no matter how you phrase it. Killing your own child because you either can't afford it or don't want it, is sick.
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Batman007
Guest
What's that have to do with my post? I was listing ways to reduce abortion, I'd think that we'd have the same opinion on that matter.
This. Your difference in goals and fundamental moral orientation is different. Points of contention like this are the one ultimately more important to people than pragmatic concerns. For good reason too.
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Batman007
Guest
Well the whole point of the ENTIRE post is that helping women and children will, ultimately, reduce the number of abortions. Like I said making it illegal will not make the problem go away.
There is a difference between your intentions and how people end up interpreting the argument. If you do not accept abortion is a fundamental evil, or that the protection of human life in its most forms is morally praiseworthy, your goals are fundamentally different.
You view abortion as some sort of social aberration to be curbed. They (myself included) feel it to be a moral evil that must be denounced, repented for, and punished. Our goals are different and the reason for that is expressed in the statement "murder is murder."
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Charley
Guest
I had a conversation similar to this on a chat site the other night and was disgusted by the way the other people attacked my beliefs and opinions on the topic! My stance is that although I, as I see myself and my future at this point in time, don't think I will ever have an abortion; I am in no place to judge the choices another person makes because I have no way of living their life, thinking their thoughts and feeling their emotions. As for contraceptives, the 'YOUCAT' book answers the question "May a Christian married couple regulate the number of children they have?" (p228) with a 'yes' because raising a child is a difficult task and factors need to be taken into consideration in order to provide the children they can care for with the caring environment. In, all contraception in the modern world, in my opinion, is acceptable because it is better to have one or two children and provide them with a loving and safe environment than to have ten+ and not be able to give them all the care they need to grow.
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Lightwalker
Guest
It has nothing to do with judging them. No, we don't know the circumstances or what they are going through, but does that mean we condone the murdering of one's own flesh and blood? Should we turn a blind eye to the millions of lives slain for no other reason other than they were not wanted or they were an inconvenience? That is something I will not do because each life is precious no matter what the circumstances, and should be treated with the same rights and dignity as any other human being.
As for contraceptives, I do agree with you on that one.
I actually had a very long and difficult discussion with a pro-life lobbyist in Canada (from the Christian Heritige Party, our 5th biggest party, since you showed an interest in Canadian Politics) about how their campaigns should focus on addressing the underlying situations that leave a woman in the place where she'd want an abortion rather than just leaning on shock tactics like they do. I could get into that more if you'd like but it appears we'd generally agree on quite a number of things anyway.
Of course the person I was talking to would have none of it to the point where the responses eventually stoped even being reasonable. Mind I AM pro life, and was only criticizing their methods and priorities, it's not as if I was being strictly adversarial.
More to the point in that conversation it became very clear that the Pro-Life lobby has womens and childrens well being as at best a tertiary concern. The pro-choice is the same way to. Both of them have a long list of ideologies and agendas they want pushed before they even think of doing good for people.
It's politics over people again, just like we where talking about in the other thread. And again, a lot of it is designed to polarize people. It's all about those murdering nazi pro-choisers or those pro-lifers that want women barefoot and pregnant on a compound all the time...
That's why no one ever brings that up.
To be sure the individual pro life or pro choice people may really have peoples well being at heart. But the lobbyists who make this as big of an issue as it is certainly don't.
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Beckon
Guest
If you had something you though was deadly would you try to stop it from aborting.
In my faith there is no one or thing that can keep anyone or thing, in or out of here, that The God Of all who is All wants in or out. There leave all death stones in God's hands at least until one is found sinless!
In my faith there is no one or thing that can keep anyone or thing, in or out of here, that The God Of all who is All wants in or out. There leave all death stones in God's hands at least until one is found sinless!
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Meerkat
Guest
I'm on birth control. I don't find it wrong at all, although I wish it didn't heighten my risk of bloodclots 
Right now I don't take it to avoid pregnancy, but to regulate my cycles and lessen the intense pain and nausea I get when I have them. I don't plan to have children, so later on this will probably function as actual birth control.
I don't see how it's anyone's business whether it's "right" or "wrong" if someone else takes BC or has an abortion, though. Unless it's your body (females) or your child (males), no one else should really have a say in it.
Right now I don't take it to avoid pregnancy, but to regulate my cycles and lessen the intense pain and nausea I get when I have them. I don't plan to have children, so later on this will probably function as actual birth control.
I don't see how it's anyone's business whether it's "right" or "wrong" if someone else takes BC or has an abortion, though. Unless it's your body (females) or your child (males), no one else should really have a say in it.
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Mammachickadee
Guest
Abortion:
For most the answer is quite simple: abortion is wrong because it's taking the life of a fellow human being and casting it aside as so much rubbish. For some who believe abortion is okay to "save the life of the mother" or to prevent the birth of a product of rape/incest. Statistically, reported abortions for the sake of saving the mother's life or "erasing" physical proof of someone's sin make up 2% of abortions. Out of that 1 percent which are to "save the mother's life" or for the "mother's health" not all that are reported for such are actually for that purpose.
What proof do I have? Phil Kline, a persecuted pro-life former attorney general of Kansas had documented information of such. He had proof, for example, that one woman wanted a late-term abortion because she was pregnant and wanted to go back to the rodeo. Because she claimed she just couldn't cope not going back because of her pregnancy, Tiller performed an illegal late-term abortion. It is with this selfish mindset in over 1% (including those for the sake of incest and rape) of women who go to have an abortion that abortion is so common. Yes, the rape of a woman is unpleasant to think about and scarring for life to the victim... but what about the scars left from taking the life of an innocent? For rape there is counselling, love, and healing... but for taking the life of your little baby there is a world of regret and questions. In the cases of reported rapes I can understand taking Plan B (which will not perform an abortion since it works like most hormonal birth controls only quicker), but abortion? Under what circumstances were you raped anyway? Because you foolishly exposed yourself and made yourself vulnerable, or were you really where a woman should be when someone intruded on your life.
Birth control is something that every person should consider with something of an open mind, for not all birth controls work the same way... and no birth control is sperm-proof or baby-proof. It is not for an unmarried teenager.
For most the answer is quite simple: abortion is wrong because it's taking the life of a fellow human being and casting it aside as so much rubbish. For some who believe abortion is okay to "save the life of the mother" or to prevent the birth of a product of rape/incest. Statistically, reported abortions for the sake of saving the mother's life or "erasing" physical proof of someone's sin make up 2% of abortions. Out of that 1 percent which are to "save the mother's life" or for the "mother's health" not all that are reported for such are actually for that purpose.
What proof do I have? Phil Kline, a persecuted pro-life former attorney general of Kansas had documented information of such. He had proof, for example, that one woman wanted a late-term abortion because she was pregnant and wanted to go back to the rodeo. Because she claimed she just couldn't cope not going back because of her pregnancy, Tiller performed an illegal late-term abortion. It is with this selfish mindset in over 1% (including those for the sake of incest and rape) of women who go to have an abortion that abortion is so common. Yes, the rape of a woman is unpleasant to think about and scarring for life to the victim... but what about the scars left from taking the life of an innocent? For rape there is counselling, love, and healing... but for taking the life of your little baby there is a world of regret and questions. In the cases of reported rapes I can understand taking Plan B (which will not perform an abortion since it works like most hormonal birth controls only quicker), but abortion? Under what circumstances were you raped anyway? Because you foolishly exposed yourself and made yourself vulnerable, or were you really where a woman should be when someone intruded on your life.
Birth control is something that every person should consider with something of an open mind, for not all birth controls work the same way... and no birth control is sperm-proof or baby-proof. It is not for an unmarried teenager.
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Mammachickadee
Guest
In spite of the risk of blood clots, especially from MTHFR, a baby asprin and extra folic acid and B vitamins will counter any health issues.I'm on birth control. I don't find it wrong at all, although I wish it didn't heighten my risk of bloodclots
Right now I don't take it to avoid pregnancy, but to regulate my cycles and lessen the intense pain and nausea I get when I have them. I don't plan to have children, so later on this will probably function as actual birth control.
I don't see how it's anyone's business whether it's "right" or "wrong" if someone else takes BC or has an abortion, though. Unless it's your body (females) or your child (males), no one else should really have a say in it.
It's not the individual's body, actually. It's God's creation, just like that little baby. True, noone can judge for you what decision you make, but one can grieve for the little ones.