Acts 2:38 and Baptismal Regeneration Refuted

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Mar 28, 2016
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"Just" believe as if believing in Christ is insignificant? (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6 etc..). Belief/faith is only as good as the OBJECT that we place it in and to say that believing in Christ for salvation is insufficient to save is to say that the OBJECT of our belief/faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is insufficient to save. To believe in Christ for salvation is to trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
Yes, Christ's finished work of salvation is in respect to His "work of faith", or labor of Love. The gift is faith previously having none other than the imagination of the sinful heart of natural man . God calls that "no faith" not little, none.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Yes, I have heard all the arguments and even preformed my own investigation of the textual evidence for both the longer and the shorter reading and the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the longer reading. Why is it that every time the subject of baptism is mentioned in scripture, people go out of their way to either find some grammatical gymnastics around the topic or look for some way to call the text into question to discredit the text? I am perplexed about this to say the least.
I will give you another one to be perplexed about. These men in Acts 2:38 were already born of the Spirit, evidenced by them being "PRICKED" in their heart. The natural man, void of the Spirit, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot bricked in his heart.
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
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"Just" believe as if believing in Christ is insignificant? (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6 etc..). Belief/faith is only as good as the OBJECT that we place it in and to say that believing in Christ for salvation is insufficient to save is to say that the OBJECT of our belief/faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is insufficient to save. To believe in Christ for salvation is to trust in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.
I find in the bible three main things that come with salvation one is believing must believe first no biggie there two repentance believe all you want but without repentance it is worthless, baptism essential for remission of sins. these three things are a them that is mention through out the new testament for salvation.
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

*If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All through the book of Acts they received salvation when they believed/placed faith in Christ for salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18 etc..) then were AFTERWARDS water baptized. End of story.
Now there is a pile of bla bla bla
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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I will give you another one to be perplexed about. These men in Acts 2:38 were already born of the Spirit, evidenced by them being "PRICKED" in their heart. The natural man, void of the Spirit, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot bricked in his heart.
Na not true, I was sitting in a church unsave not looking to be save there for a woman and the sermon pricked me in the heart and I repented and got baptized in the name of Jesus that very day.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I find in the bible three main things that come with salvation one is believing must believe first no biggie there two repentance believe all you want but without repentance it is worthless, baptism essential for remission of sins. these three things are a them that is mention through out the new testament for salvation.
There is no believing without repentance. We must first repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel. So it's repent "change your mind" -- and the "new direction" of this "change of mind" is faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin. Water baptism FOLLOWS repentance/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ/salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; Acts 15:7-9; 16:31-34).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Na not true, I was sitting in a church unsave not looking to be save there for a woman and the sermon pricked me in the heart and I repented and got baptized in the name of Jesus that very day.
Please explain what you mean by "you repented." :unsure:

Also, what do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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Please explain what you mean by "you repented." :unsure:

Also, what do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
The gospel is death burial and resurrection We die to ourselves through repentance a decision to turn our lives and will over to Him (death) burial through baptism I am buried with him in death (Burial)
There is no believing without repentance. We must first repent "change our mind" before we can believe the gospel. So it's repent "change your mind" -- and the "new direction" of this "change of mind" is faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin. Water baptism FOLLOWS repentance/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ/salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; Acts 15:7-9; 16:31-34).
Why would you repent if you do not believe you must first believe If I do not believe then who are you repenting to. believing on comes first
Repentance is a turning away from self dying to self and walking towards Christ If I do not believe in christ then ????????

When I was pricked in my heart I was moved to die to self and turn my will over to Him. But I had to believe first I believed when my heart was pricked. and move on by the Lord for it is the Lord that adds to the Church.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The gospel is death burial and resurrection We die to ourselves through repentance a decision to turn our lives and will over to Him (death) burial through baptism I am buried with him in death (Burial)
Yes, the gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIVES.. ( Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Water baptism is the picture of dying to self and rising to new life, but not the cause.

When you repent if you do not believe you must first believe If I do not believe then who are you repenting to. believing on comes first Repentance is a turning away from self dying to self and walking towards Christ If I do not believe in christ then ????????
We must first believe “mental assent” in the existence of Christ before we can “repent and believe the gospel.” Repentance is not merely self-moral reformation joined with mere “mental assent” belief. Repentance actually precedes saving belief/faith in Christ. In Acts 20:21, we read - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

When I was pricked in my heart I was moved to die to self and turn my will over to Him. But I had to believe first I believed when my heart was pricked. and move on by the Lord for it is the Lord that adds to the Church.
These Jews in Acts 2:37 were pricked in their heart when they heard that God made Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Christ, yet that was not saving belief yet. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
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Yes, the gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIVES.. ( Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Water baptism is the picture of dying to self and rising to new life, but not the cause.

We must first believe “mental assent” in the existence of Christ before we can “repent and believe the gospel.” Repentance is not merely self-moral reformation joined with mere “mental assent” belief. Repentance actually precedes saving belief/faith in Christ. In Acts 20:21, we read - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

These Jews in Acts 2:37 were pricked in their heart when they heard that God made Jesus, whom they crucified, both Lord and Christ, yet that was not saving belief yet. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.
Just believing will get you nowhere YOU MUST REPENT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Just believing will get you nowhere YOU MUST REPENT
Repent and believe the gospel is the order. To say, “I repented but I don’t believe the gospel,” is an oxymoron or, “I believe the gospel but I never repented,” is also an oxymoron. Repenting and believing are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable in salvation.
 

Dem

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Mar 7, 2018
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Repent and believe the gospel is the order. To say, “I repented but I don’t believe the gospel,” is an oxymoron or, “I believe the gospel but I never repented,” is also an oxymoron. Repenting and believing are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable in salvation.
geez I been saying that all along you must first believe then through that believe you repent. to just believe and not repent is nothing I know many people who believe but do not live a life of repentance. they are still in there own will you can believe that the chair is there but you don't sit in it it is not any good to you
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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You are correct on the difference of words. It was an inadvertent mistake. I made an assumption from some materials that I should have checked out myself.

However the Luke 5 scripture makes a valid point regardless as it is an example of where something already accomplished (healing) was publicly affirmed by a ceremony (the offering) exactly as baptism is a public affirmation of salvation which has already occurred.
For a better understanding of eis look at Mt 26:28

28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for(eis) the forgiveness of sins.

Does anyone want to argue that the pouring out of Jesus' blood does not lead to the forgiveness of sin?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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For a better understanding of eis look at Mt 26:28

28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for (eis) the forgiveness of sins.

Does anyone want to argue that the pouring out of Jesus' blood does not lead to the forgiveness of sin?
The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28; 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18; 3. Ceremonially, by water baptism - Acts 2:38.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Does anyone want to argue that the pouring out of Jesus' blood does not lead to the forgiveness of sin?
Only if you include repentance and faith.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)

No repentance = no remission of sins
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Only if you include repentance and faith.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)

No repentance = no remission of sins
No salvation = no way to repent.

First things first. The faith God's labor of love working in us to both will and do His good pleasure must first appear .By it he turns us towards Him who has no form, after being turned we can repent or comfort our selves