Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[studier]

Myles Coverdale, theologian & translator of the Coverdale Bible, taught that Scripture must never be judged by what is spoken or written only, but by asking: of whom, to whom, with what words, at what time, where, for what intent, under what circumstances, and in light of what comes before and after.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(NOTE: Gentiles were ""strangers to Jewish covenants"" (Eph 2:12), so anything spoken under those covenants must be interpreted through Coverdale's lens.)

The Assyrian & Babylonian exiles, the Persian Empire, later Greek & Roman migrations, so that by the first century Jews were in ""every nation throughout the world"" (Acts 2:5).

This is where Myles Coverdale's rule becomes essential: to interpret any passage, ask of whom, to whom, when, where, under what covenant, and for what intent.

Jesus said, ""Salvation is of the Jews"" (Jn 4:22): Jesus' earthly ministry was strictly to Israel‑only. Jesus said ""I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24) & commanding His apostles, ""Go not into the way of ""the Gentiles"" (Matt 10:5–6).

Jesus was born under the law & sent to redeem those under the law (Gal 4:4-5) He was a minster to the circumcision/Jews to fulfill promises made to the fathers (Rom 15:8).

Everything Jesus commanded before the cross-including the Great Commission & Mark 16:15–16, was spoken inside a Jewish covenant world, to Jewish apostles, for Israel's scattered sheep, launching the Jew‑first phase of salvation history (Rom 1:16). While alive, Jesus was 100% Mosaic‑Law adherent.

Gentiles remain outside salvations Jewish only offer until Acts 10. Gentiles enter the salvation storyline, when the Lord Jesus Himself (who knows mans heart-acts 1:24, 15:8, Jn 2:24-25, Heb 4:12, Rev 2:23) baptizes these gentile believers with the Holy Spirit-received by FAITH ALONE-no circumcision-no water. Jewish believers are astonished! Peter confirms the event where gentiles were GIVEN the same eternal life seal as they were given at Pentecost (Acts 11:17 & 15:8)

Ten years after Pentecost, in Acts 10:44, Jesus Himself makes salvation universal & believing Gentiles become part of the Body of Christ as Jesus replaces the Jewish‑only Acts 2:38 sequence with the pattern Hear > Believe > Receive the Holy Spirit.

No interest in your copy and paste methods of confusing a simple point about a simple piece of logic used in a single verse.

 

[TruthDefender]

Myles Coverdale, theologian & translator of the Coverdale Bible, taught that Scripture must never be judged by what is spoken or written only, but by asking: of whom, to whom, with what words, at what time, where, for what intent, under what circumstances, and in light of what comes before and after.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(NOTE: Gentiles were ""strangers to Jewish covenants"" (Eph 2:12), so anything spoken under those covenants must be interpreted through Coverdale's lens.)

The Assyrian & Babylonian exiles, the Persian Empire, later Greek & Roman migrations, so that by the first century Jews were in ""every nation throughout the world"" (Acts 2:5).

This is where Myles Coverdale's rule becomes essential: to interpret any passage, ask of whom, to whom, when, where, under what covenant, and for what intent.

Jesus said, ""Salvation is of the Jews"" (Jn 4:22): Jesus' earthly ministry was strictly to Israel‑only. Jesus said ""I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24) & commanding His apostles, ""Go not into the way of ""the Gentiles"" (Matt 10:5–6).

Jesus was born under the law & sent to redeem those under the law (Gal 4:4-5) He was a minster to the circumcision/Jews to fulfill promises made to the fathers (Rom 15:8).

Everything Jesus commanded before the cross-including the Great Commission & Mark 16:15–16, was spoken inside a Jewish covenant world, to Jewish apostles, for Israel's scattered sheep, launching the Jew‑first phase of salvation history (Rom 1:16). While alive, Jesus was 100% Mosaic‑Law adherent.

Gentiles remain outside salvations Jewish only offer until Acts 10. Gentiles enter the salvation storyline, when the Lord Jesus Himself (who knows mans heart-acts 1:24, 15:8, Jn 2:24-25, Heb 4:12, Rev 2:23) baptizes these gentile believers with the Holy Spirit-received by FAITH ALONE-no circumcision-no water. Jewish believers are astonished! Peter confirms the event where gentiles were GIVEN the same eternal life seal as they were given at Pentecost (Acts 11:17 & 15:8)

Ten years after Pentecost, in Acts 10:44, Jesus Himself makes salvation universal & believing Gentiles become part of the Body of Christ as Jesus replaces the Jewish‑only Acts 2:38 sequence with the pattern Hear > Believe > Receive the Holy Spirit.

Some Gentiles overheard and believed. The centurion is one. This Roman seemingly had more faith than Israel as a whole.

 

[FlyingDove]

Some Gentiles overheard and believed. The centurion is one. This Roman seemingly had more faith than Israel as a whole.

The centurion story is a healing event reward for display of great faith , not a salvation event.

Likewise: Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(MY NOTE: Jesus refers to the gentile woman from Canaan as a dog yet rewards for a display of great faith & heals her daughter)

In Jesus day gentiles were considered to be godless & ceremonially unclean. The reference "dog" was a commonly know & used expression for gentiles within the Jewish culture.

Jesus own stated mission:
Jn 4:22 Jesus say's, for salvation is of the Jews.

Matt 15:24 Jesus say's, I am sent ONLY to he lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matt 10:
5 Jesus commands the 12 saying, DON'T go to Gentiles or Samaritans

6 Jesus sends to 12 to Israelites ONLY.

Paul confirms Jesus mission

Rom 15:8 Paul say's, Jesus Christ was a minister of the JEWS/circumcision & sent to confirm the promises made to Israel's fathers:

Gal 4:4 God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law (Vs5) To redeem them Those under Mosaic law.

Rom 1:16 the gospel of Christ, power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, the Jew FIRST & then the Greek (Acts 2, Pentecost/the Jew - Acts 10 Ten years later Gentiles. also see Rom 2:10

Additional recourses:
Acts 3:
25 Peter speaking to a Jewish crowd, You are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers

26 UNTO YOU FIRST God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

While alive Jesus mission is to ISRAELITES ONLY!

Please provide scripture that supports your claim that gentiles heard-believed & were saved before Acts 10:44

 

[TruthDefender]

The centurion story is a healing event reward for display of great faith , not a salvation event.

Likewise: Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(MY NOTE: Jesus refers to the gentile woman from Canaan as a dog yet rewards for a display of great faith & heals her daughter)

In Jesus day gentiles were considered to be godless & ceremonially unclean. The reference "dog" was a commonly know & used expression for gentiles within the Jewish culture.

Jesus own stated mission:
Jn 4:22 Jesus say's, for salvation is of the Jews.

Matt 15:24 Jesus say's, I am sent ONLY to he lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matt 10:
5 Jesus commands the 12 saying, DON'T go to Gentiles or Samaritans

6 Jesus sends to 12 to Israelites ONLY.

Paul confirms Jesus mission

Rom 15:8 Paul say's, Jesus Christ was a minister of the JEWS/circumcision & sent to confirm the promises made to Israel's fathers:

Gal 4:4 God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law (Vs5) To redeem them Those under Mosaic law.

Rom 1:16 the gospel of Christ, power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, the Jew FIRST & then the Greek (Acts 2, Pentecost/the Jew - Acts 10 Ten years later Gentiles. also see Rom 2:10

Additional recourses:
Acts 3:
25 Peter speaking to a Jewish crowd, You are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers

26 UNTO YOU FIRST God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

While alive Jesus mission is to ISRAELITES ONLY!

Please provide scripture that supports your claim that gentiles heard-believed & were saved before Acts 10:44

Yes, I stand corrected. I had recalled the Centurion soldier, but I thought he believed and was baptized.

 

[Gideon300]

If you were open minded, you would see that tongues have ceased.

There are many testimonies of Mormons who experience speaking in tongues, do you deny their claims?

I did not grow up in a christian household. My first experience with speaking in tongues was in Hong Kong. The English missionary I met was speaking, so I thought, in Chinese. There was only a few of us and I'd been saved for weeks. None of us were Chinese. I came across Teen Challenge in Hawaii and in Sydney. God has a way of leading us even when we have no idea what is going on. I heard speaking in tongues at Teen Challenge also. I was in the Australian Navy at the time.

To me, this was for emotional people, not for me. So I refused to accept it for myself. I'd shut down my emotions for so long that I was as cold as ice. I knew nothing of the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit. I did not want to know, as I've said.

I went to every meeting that I could, anywhere I could, even in Japan. God led me to a Baptist Church in Nagasaki. One evening at Teen Challenge in Sydney, I was in a meeting with about 20 people. The leader, Harold (Tiny) Dewberry had what I came to know as a world of knowledge. He described symptoms I suffered perfectly. I'd had many years of alcohol abuse and my liver was not good. He said that he would pray and God would heal. I was in constant discomfort as my liver was not functioning fully. I did not know that at the time. I did not trust Navy doctors enough to seek help.

I looked around the room. No one had indicated a need. So I put my hand up, in fear and trembling. Tiny laid hands on me and I was healed instantly. Word of knowledge and a gift of healing. Sweet. It did not change my attitude to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I'll say it again. Tongues are the least of the gifts. However, that does not invalidate them. And the fact that there is a counterfeit proves that the genuine exists. I've heard demons speak out gibberish. One of the great weaknesses of the modern church is a lack of discernment.

After many experiences with God, I realised that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was something that I needed to embrace. So Christmas Eve, 1974, alone, at about 10.30 at night, I received the gift of the Holy Spirit. I spoke in tongues immediately. It was not forced. I'd rejected that pressure from others. I was at complete peace. I could stop any time and speak in tongues any time I chose.

My experience can be multiplied countless times. I don't speak in tongues now. My wife does still. I could if I wanted. I don't feel the need.

So I reject your assertion. No one is telling you that you must speak in tongues. It's between the individual and God.

 

[Rob7]

~~ Blessed Sabbath Folks ~~
I've come to reason out that modern "Christianity" is very much simpler than I first thought, almost a year ago, when I first started posting, here in these forums.

There are just TWO religious systems in the world TODAY, all the way back to Eden. One the Spirit of Able, the other the spirit of Cain. One obedience, the other disobedience.

Satan has been very proficient at deceiving most folks all through history, into believing his Doctrines of Disobedience. So TODAY, most all men are following after and believing Satan, rather than Jesus.

As in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:37-39 , Luke 17:26-27 Most men preferred to believe Satan and continue in their lusts for the world, rather than believing (Noah) Jesus, the Word.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

 

[TrustandObey]

I did not grow up in a christian household. My first experience with speaking in tongues was in Hong Kong. The English missionary I met was speaking, so I thought, in Chinese. There was only a few of us and I'd been saved for weeks. None of us were Chinese. I came across Teen Challenge in Hawaii and in Sydney. God has a way of leading us even when we have no idea what is going on. I heard speaking in tongues at Teen Challenge also. I was in the Australian Navy at the time.

To me, this was for emotional people, not for me. So I refused to accept it for myself. I'd shut down my emotions for so long that I was as cold as ice. I knew nothing of the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit. I did not want to know, as I've said.

I went to every meeting that I could, anywhere I could, even in Japan. God led me to a Baptist Church in Nagasaki. One evening at Teen Challenge in Sydney, I was in a meeting with about 20 people. The leader, Harold (Tiny) Dewberry had what I came to know as a world of knowledge. He described symptoms I suffered perfectly. I'd had many years of alcohol abuse and my liver was not good. He said that he would pray and God would heal. I was in constant discomfort as my liver was not functioning fully. I did not know that at the time. I did not trust Navy doctors enough to seek help.

I looked around the room. No one had indicated a need. So I put my hand up, in fear and trembling. Tiny laid hands on me and I was healed instantly. Word of knowledge and a gift of healing. Sweet. It did not change my attitude to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I'll say it again. Tongues are the least of the gifts. However, that does not invalidate them. And the fact that there is a counterfeit proves that the genuine exists. I've heard demons speak out gibberish. One of the great weaknesses of the modern church is a lack of discernment.

After many experiences with God, I realised that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was something that I needed to embrace. So Christmas Eve, 1974, alone, at about 10.30 at night, I received the gift of the Holy Spirit. I spoke in tongues immediately. It was not forced. I'd rejected that pressure from others. I was at complete peace. I could stop any time and speak in tongues any time I chose.

My experience can be multiplied countless times. I don't speak in tongues now. My wife does still. I could if I wanted. I don't feel the need.

465 words, 49 sentences and 7 paragraphs to simply say your acceptance of the continuation of tongues into modern times is based on personal experiences.

Presenting experiences as evidence is common among most false religions.

And the fact that there is a counterfeit proves that the genuine exists.

True but it most certainly does not prove that your experience is genuine.

I live very close to a active Mormon church that "experiences" tongues, does this validate their message?

Does your experiences validate your message?

 

[Gideon300]

465 words, 49 sentences and 7 paragraphs to simply say your acceptance of the continuation of tongues into modern times is based on personal experiences.

Presenting experiences as evidence is common among most false religions.


True but it most certainly does not prove that your experience is genuine.

I live very close to a active Mormon church that "experiences" tongues, does this validate their message?

Does your experiences validate your message?

For sure experience validates God's word. Without real experience, Christianity is just another dead religion.

Romans 5:4 & 5

"Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us."

You have not one shred of Biblical support to demonstrate that tongues have ceased. All you have is an assertion. Assertions are not proof.

 

[TrustandObey]

For sure experience validates God's word. Without real experience, Christianity is just another dead religion.

Romans 5:4 & 5

"Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us."

You have not one shred of Biblical support to demonstrate that tongues have ceased. All you have is an assertion. Assertions are not proof.

You are fooling no one.

Changing the question is a sign of your unwillingness to face the obvious.

I did not ask if experience validates God's word. And you know it.

I asked does experience validate your assertions or the assertions of other groups such as the Mormons?

You are intellectually dishonest.

 

[TrustandObey]

You have not one shred of Biblical support to demonstrate that tongues have ceased. All you have is an assertion. Assertions are not proof.

The issue of if the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still active today as it was in the New Testament is not proven by scripture.

It is proven by the same means as it was in the Bible, by direct observation.

If you were honest you would at least admit this.

 

[Gideon300]

You are fooling no one.

Changing the question is a sign of your unwillingness to face the obvious.

I did not ask if experience validates God's word. And you know it.

I asked does experience validate your assertions or the assertions of other groups such as the Mormons?

You are intellectually dishonest.

I do not make assertions. I leave that to you. Your assertion is that tongues have ceased already. The Bible does not say that. The fact is that tongues is still a valid gift at this time.

 

[Gideon300]

The issue of if the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still active today as it was in the New Testament is not proven by scripture.

It is proven by the same means as it was in the Bible, by direct observation.

If you were honest you would at least admit this.

Are you looking for a fight? Are you trying to prove how spiritual you are? You have to prove your false assertion that tongues have ceased. I have news for you. They have not. The Bible says that they will cease; it also says when the perfect has come. That has yet to happen. Yes, that is a direct observation also.

 

[TrustandObey]

I do not make assertions. I leave that to you. Your assertion is that tongues have ceased already. The Bible does not say that. The fact is that tongues is still a valid gift at this time.

You are most certainly making an assertion. You may not realize this because you do not understand the meaning of the word.

You are asserting that something that was happening 2000 years has not stopped and is currently happening today.

You present no explanation of why there is no prima facie or direct observation of this assertion.

You sound like the Christians who assert that since the Bible describes the Earth as having four corners then it is flat.

They also ignore all direct observation against their claim.

You assert that the "perfect" is Jesus yet present no Biblical case.

Your argument is not Biblical but one based on emotion and claims of experience.

 

[Gideon300]

You are most certainly making an assertion. You may not realize this because you do not understand the meaning of the word.

You are asserting that something that was happening 2000 years has not stopped and is currently happening today.

You present no explanation of why there is no prima facie or direct observation of this assertion.

You sound like the Christians who assert that since the Bible describes the Earth as having four corners then it is flat.

They also ignore all direct observation against their claim.

You assert that the "perfect" is Jesus yet present no Biblical case.

Your argument is not Biblical but one based on emotion and claims of experience.

And your claim is based on what exactly?

 

[Lamar]

And your claim is based on what exactly?

Don't be coy.

You know exactly what his claim is based upon.

Direct and honest observation.

The same thing you use before you cross the street.

 

[Gideon300]

Don't be coy.

You know exactly what his claim is based upon.

Direct and honest observation.

The same thing you use before you cross the street.

So you would both be run over. He complains about me using observation and experience but won't apply it to himself. Obviously you agree with that approach. The reality is that tongues have not ceased. All he has is an assertion, the same thing that he accuses me of. I happen to know that tongues have NOT ceased. Watch out for that truck coming down the road.

"Honest" observation? If he had a basis for his claim, I'd agree. He denies the reality without any basis. I do not describe that as honest.

 

[Lamar]

So you would both be run over. He complains about me using observation and experience but won't apply it to himself. Obviously you agree with that approach. The reality is that tongues have not ceased. All he has is an assertion, the same thing that he accuses me of. I happen to know that tongues have NOT ceased. Watch out for that truck coming down the road.

"Honest" observation? If he had a basis for his claim, I'd agree. He denies the reality without any basis. I do not describe that as honest.

What is wrong with you?

"The reality is that tongues have not ceased."???

Not only has tongues ceased but all of the physical supernatural manifestations that were used to usher in the Church age has ceased.

This may be over your head but if you are forced to assert their current existence with scripture you are ignoring their very purpose.

Jesus and the Apostles properly used these manifestations to proclaim the gospel. You and your ilk attempt to defend claims of manifestations instead.

This may help.

If I want to let my neighbors know it is snowing I do not pull out a Farmer's Almanac.

I tell them to look outside.

 

[Gideon300]

What is wrong with you?

"The reality is that tongues have not ceased."???

Not only has tongues ceased but all of the physical supernatural manifestations that were used to usher in the Church age has ceased.

This may be over your head but if you are forced to assert their current existence with scripture you are ignoring their very purpose.

Jesus and the Apostles properly used these manifestations to proclaim the gospel. You and your ilk attempt to defend claims of manifestations instead.

This may help.

If I want to let my neighbors know it is snowing I do not pull out a Farmer's Almanac.

I tell them to look outside.

You should go into comedy. You have NO justification for your claim that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. I thought you had a modicum of intelligence. All I see is utter confusion. Defending with scripture? Isn't that what scripture is for? If I had no scriptural basis, no doubt you would condemn me for that. There are vast numbers of "ilk" who know that God's power is unchanged and that the need is just as great.

When I go outside and see that it is raining, I get my umbrella. I don't say that rain has ceased so that can't be rain.

 

[FlyingDove]

Repent & be Baptized IS NOT the message for today's Body of Christ

Jesus, the Baptist & the 12 preached the Gospel of the Kingdom.

The kingdom offer required NATIONAL repentance (Matt 3:2 & 4:17), receiving the King (J 1:11) & faith in His identity (Jn 8:24).

The kingdom could not be established without the NATION receiving the King, because the Davidic kingdom is a NATIONAL covenant (2 Sam 7, Ps 89, Isa 9, Jer 23, Ezek 37).

A glimpse of God's promised coming Kingdom to Israel: 2 Sam 7:12–13, 1 Chron 17:10–14, Isa 9:6–7, 11:1–9, Dan 2:44, 7:13–14, Mic 4:1–5, Zech 14:1–21, Luke 1:32–33.

All the above OT verses are coming-kingdom promises God made to Israel's fathers (Rom 15:8). They are the necessary context for understanding Jesus' kingdom message (Matt 3:2).

This kingdom message was preached only to Israel ONLY, NEVER to Gentiles. It did not include/reveal the cross, the resurrection as a saving message, the Body of Christ, or justification by faith apart from the Law, because the kingdom message was tied to Israel's covenant promises & NATIONAL repentance.

Acts 2 exposes Israel's continued rejection: Peter says, ""you have taken and by wicked hands have crucified & slain"" (Acts 2:23). That is not national repentance. That is national guilt.

Acts 10 exposes God saving Gentiles WITHOUT Israel: No kingdom, No national repentance, No water baptism, No Law, No Israelite mediation, No ""kingdom at hand"" message.

God saves Gentiles by hearing (Acts 10:44), by faith (Acts 15:9) without repentance, water baptism or circumcision

Acts 2 shows Israel rejecting the King & Acts 10 shows God saving Gentiles without Israel-proving the kingdom message depended on the nation, while the grace message bypasses the nation entirely.

The 2 messages are not the same. The Kingdom message depends on Israel receiving her King. The Grace message bypasses Israel entirely & depends on faith alone.

The gospel message today is Here:
1 Cor 15:
3 That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 That he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Rom 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Lamar]

You have NO justification for your claim that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased.

Really, I have NO justification to believe that the New Testament physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit has ceased.

None?

So these tangible supernatural events have been going on for 2000 years and is even occurring today?

Again, what is wrong with you?

Do you think you are fooling people by changing the question to "gifts of the Spirit"?

Do you think you are fooling anyone by not addressing the example of alerting people of the snowfall?

Rain and umbrella? Is this the best you have?

Again, with scripture address your claim that the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still active today.

Not with conjecture about the "perfect" but real scriptures.

The "ilk" that believe your nonsense are making a mockery of the Holy Spirit.

Babble and parlor tricks are not of the Holy Spirit.