T
Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture
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So the remnant is the Jewish remnant because that is what Paul is discussing in Romans 9,10,11.
Remember that the Jews come first in Paul's mind.
T
Thaddeus
Guest
Often you get two extremes, one extreme wants in effect righteousness of obeying the law, the other believes everything written in the law was abolished.
Jesus did not die at calvary to abolish what is holy, just and good(Rom7:12) he died to abolish condemnation under what is holy, just and good.
If a believer instinctively knows in their mind God does not want them to steal, murder, commit adultery, lie, take His name in vain, and in their heart do not want to do those things, whilst at the same time knowing they have no righteousness of obeying the law, the new covenant is working out fine in their lives:
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’/no more righteousness of obeying the law
And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. Heb10:15-18
Exactly. So Lord Jesus indeed did not carry out the punishment due under the Law. No doubt He was perfectly righteous in all that He did. How many Israelites in the Old Testament were without sin? According to God's word, none. So who could claim the moral authority in the OT?
I've been born again 54 years. SDA says that Lord Jesus has placed His Law in my mind. I can assure you that not once has He told me to keep the Sabbath.
I understand that Jew OR gentile believing and following Jesus, become "the Remnant" the Body of Christ, His Church on Earth NOW, by adopting the "our conscience" of the indwelling of Christ Spirit in us, His Holy Spirit in our hearts, mind and soul, by Faith & LOVE, Matt 22:37, therefore having The Righteousness of Christ, His obedient Faith in His Father's Promises and Will, becoming the Lamb of God by Perfect Obedience to God's Law, HIS SINLESSNESS, in relation to the Father's Commandments, including keeping the Father's Holy Sabbath, His Sign of Authority, as THE Creator God !!
If we confess our sins ( sinning is the transgression of God's Law, the Character of God, being the standard and foundation of His Kingdom" REPENT of those character flaws, those sins in us, and "Make straight the Way of the Lord" " If you Love me, keep my commandments" ... by walking, talking and acting as Jesus the Christ did AND would have us, so to be judged Righteous, as Jesus was Righteous, to inherit Eternal Life, WITH HIM ... Amen !
This message is the same message delivered by John the Baptist and other "God's Prophets" "whosoever" presents / represents Christ's Character, His Righteousness, and being God's Remnant Church, in these Last Days, just before the SOON COMING of our LORD & KING. Maranatha !! Amen !
Don't adhere to the teachings of the False Prophets of Satan, But battle, as Elijah battled against the Prophets of Ba'al.
(1 Kings 18:16-40 ) by presenting the Truth, The Way & The Life .. countering their un-Truth, the Wrong Way, leading to Death, as exampled below by Gideon300 's false teachings, that lead men to disobey God, and presenting a "false Jesus" as he is doing. This is the spirit of antiChrist, attempting to deceive men, to eternal death, ... perdition.
‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡ ~~ Blessed Day Folks !! ‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡
It is NOT the Spirit of the Lord that is telling you this ... BUT .. the Other Spirit ! The Spirit of Anti-Christ that you've been deceived to believe ...
‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡
Absolute garbage. You only sow discord. Proverbs 6:19 Can you not see that the church managed perfectly well without the SDA? If God was so unhappy with Sunday worship, why did He wait 3 centuries before revealing it?
God's word is the basis for my rejection of the SDA sabbath obsession. I'll try again.................
"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19. What laws apply to dead people?God's word is the basis for my rejection of the SDA sabbath obsession. I'll try again.................
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.
"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3: 1-12
When you follow the law, you are not living by faith. That means that you are not pleasing God.
"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:23-25
The law does not save us and neither does it make us righteous. "Whoever keeps the whole law, but stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14
What do you do with these verses?
John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:21
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
John 15:10
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”
John 14:23
“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him…”
John 15:14
“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”
That's not what the text states.
You ignore the context surrounding this clause above "at the present time a remnant".
Read each letter in it's context when reading the N.T and your misunderstanding of the scripture will vanish.
Here is the context
Romans 11:2-5
God has not rejected His people (Israel) whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Paul is only talking about Israel not the Gentiles.
I asked AI to check my analysis.
Yes, the "remnant" in Romans 11:5 refers explicitly to a remnant of ethnic Israel. [1]
Contextual Proofs
- Direct Reference: In verse 2, Paul states, "God has not rejected His people [Israel] whom He foreknew." The discussion of the remnant directly supports this claim. [1, 2, 3]
- Elijah Parallel: Paul uses the historical example of Elijah (verses 3–4). The 7,000 faithful men in Elijah's time were a subset of Jewish people who remained loyal to God while the rest of the nation turned to Baal. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- The Connection: By saying "In the same way then," Paul connects the past to his present. The "remnant" at that time consisted of Jewish people (like Paul himself) who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. [1]
Theological Meaning
- Gracious Choice: This Jewish remnant was chosen by God's grace, not because of their legalistic works or adherence to the Mosaic law.
- God's Loyalty: The existence of this Jewish remnant proved that God had not broken His covenant or abandoned the nation of Israel as a whole. [1]
Why do you read the scripture out of context?
I do not see the phrase the "10 commandments" tell me where you see that?
Nor do I see "If you love me keep my law".
Each of your quotations are from John's Gospel and your ignoring 1 John 3:23-24.
Here I will ask AI whether the word "commandments" in John's Gospel refer to the law or 1 john 3:23-24.
In John's Gospel, "commandments" refers to Jesus's specific instructions—culminating in the command to love one another—rather than the traditional Ten Commandments. This concept is perfectly summarized and explicitly defined in 1 John 3:23–24. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Johannine Definition of Commandment
When Jesus speaks of commandments in the Gospel of John, he shifts the focus from the Mosaic Law to a new covenant based on his own words and actions. [1, 2]
- The New Commandment: In John 13:34, Jesus explicitly states, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you." [1, 2]
- The Source of Life: In John 12:50, Jesus explains that his Father’s commandment is eternal life, which is found by believing in and obeying Jesus's teachings. [1, 2, 3]
- Proof of Love: In John 14:15, "If you love me, keep my commandments," refers to remaining faithful to Jesus's message and example. [1, 2]
The Connection to 1 John 3:23–24 [1]
The First Epistle of John acts as a direct commentary on the Gospel of John, explicitly spelling out what these commandments are. 1 John 3:23 states: "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment." [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Therefore, the Johannine "commandments" break down into two unified pillars:
- Faith: Believing in Jesus Christ.
- Love: Loving one another as Jesus loved his disciples. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Contrast with the Ten Commandments
While Jesus does not abolish the moral principles of the Old Testament, the Gospel of John intentionally uses distinct framing. [1]
- The Law vs. Grace: John 1:17 establishes a contrast: "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- A New Authority: Throughout the Gospel, Jesus replaces or reinterprets old institutions (like the Temple and the Sabbath) with his own authority. [1, 2]
- Focus on Relational Devotion: The emphasis is shifted from a legal code written on stone tablets to a relational devotion marked by sacrificial love and spiritual unity.
You cannot say that against someone who confesses the name of Jesus.
Your church has taught you to denigrate other Christians who disagree with your interpretation.
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?
You say we are under the law and your wrong.
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There is mind control, a brainwash, that is manifested when the word "commandments" is being mentioned by an adherent to SDA Inc. corporate doctrine.
However:
1 - Does it say that this law is the ten commandments? No, nor any hint of such a thing. Here, as ever, sabbatarians assume the very thing to be proved.
2 - The decalogue was not given till Moses, 2500 years after the creation. Ex. 2O; Deut. 5:2-6. But sin existed all that time. The angels sinned, 2 Pet. 2:4; Adam sinned, Rom. 5:12; the Sodomites sinned, Gen. 13:13; "the Gentiles which have not the law," Rom. 2:12-14, sinned; hence sin is something more than a violation of the decalogue. A neglect to do good is sin, James 4:17, but that would not violate the decalogue. Unbelief is sin, Rom. 14:23, but that is no transgression of the decalogue. So, many are damned because they neglected to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take in the stranger, clothe the naked, or visit the sick, Matt. 25:41-43, none of which are mentioned in the decalogue. John says, "All unrighteousness (unrightness, wrong) is sin." 1 John 5:17. There are scores of wrongs which the decalogue does not notice at all.
3 - The decalogue ended at the cross, 2 Cor. 3:7; Rom. 10:4, so it cannot condemn sin now.
4 - In the original of 1 John 3:4, the word law does not occur at all. Thus: "Sin is lawlessness," Revised Version. "Sin is iniquity," Diaglott. "All sin is iniquity," Syriac. "Sin is wickedness," Sawyer's Translation. "Sin is the lawlessness," literal Greek. This is the correct idea. So a correct translation entirely spoils this text for sabbatarians/Adventists. It simply affirms that all sin is iniquity, wickedness or lawlessness, a disregard of law, without any necessary reference to the decalogue.
Or, are we referring to 1 John 3:22? Well, it's "The Ten Commandments" again. The same old assumption again, viz., that "the commandments" are always the ten commandments. But the next verse explodes this hobby by naming what is meant: "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." This is not the decalogue at all.
.
There is mind control, a brainwash, that is manifested when the word "commandments" is being mentioned by an adherent to SDA Inc. corporate doctrine.
Or, in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of the law. From this text Seventh-Day Adventists claim that all sins of every kind are a violation of the ten commandments which is the law here meant.
However:
1 - Does it say that this law is the ten commandments? No, nor any hint of such a thing. Here, as ever, sabbatarians assume the very thing to be proved.
2 - The decalogue was not given till Moses, 2500 years after the creation. Ex. 2O; Deut. 5:2-6. But sin existed all that time. The angels sinned, 2 Pet. 2:4; Adam sinned, Rom. 5:12; the Sodomites sinned, Gen. 13:13; "the Gentiles which have not the law," Rom. 2:12-14, sinned; hence sin is something more than a violation of the decalogue. A neglect to do good is sin, James 4:17, but that would not violate the decalogue. Unbelief is sin, Rom. 14:23, but that is no transgression of the decalogue. So, many are damned because they neglected to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take in the stranger, clothe the naked, or visit the sick, Matt. 25:41-43, none of which are mentioned in the decalogue. John says, "All unrighteousness (unrightness, wrong) is sin." 1 John 5:17. There are scores of wrongs which the decalogue does not notice at all.
3 - The decalogue ended at the cross, 2 Cor. 3:7; Rom. 10:4, so it cannot condemn sin now.
4 - In the original of 1 John 3:4, the word law does not occur at all. Thus: "Sin is lawlessness," Revised Version. "Sin is iniquity," Diaglott. "All sin is iniquity," Syriac. "Sin is wickedness," Sawyer's Translation. "Sin is the lawlessness," literal Greek. This is the correct idea. So a correct translation entirely spoils this text for sabbatarians/Adventists. It simply affirms that all sin is iniquity, wickedness or lawlessness, a disregard of law, without any necessary reference to the decalogue.
Or, are we referring to 1 John 3:22? Well, it's "The Ten Commandments" again. The same old assumption again, viz., that "the commandments" are always the ten commandments. But the next verse explodes this hobby by naming what is meant: "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." This is not the decalogue at all.
.
What do you do with these verses?
John 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:21
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
John 15:10
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”
John 14:23
“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him…”
John 15:14
“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”
The phrase “Ten Commandments” does not need to appear for the moral commandments of God to be included. Jesus also does not say, “Only the new commandment and nothing else.” He says, “My commandments,” “My word,” and “whatever I command you.”
And Jesus’ words cannot be separated from His Father’s commandments. In John 15:10, Jesus says:
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”
Jesus kept His Father’s commandments. He did not live in opposition to them. If we are to abide in Him as He abided in the Father, then obedience cannot mean dismissing what the Father commanded.
Once again, do the five verses above come from the mouth of Jesus Himself?
But you have already been given this information and much more over the past few days. If we did not have the actual words coming out of the mouth of Jesus, perhaps there might be room for interpretation. But He has removed all doubt... So, the ONLY question you need to respond to is the question previously asked of you,
What do you do with the five verses above? Did Jesus not mean what He said? Did He contradict Paul? Was He ambiquous? Do YOUR interpretations cancel His clear statements? Do you really believe He is not talking about His 10 commandments (is there any other commandments than those given by His Father to Moses on Mt. Sinai - and we are not talking about the Levitical ordinances that were done away with - ceremonial, exsacrificial, ect.).
You definitely know better than that --- but I also understand that you must be right.
PS. I think we have exhausted this topic - at least between the two of us. Best wishes.
Yes, the commandments of Jesus. I obey Him, not a set of obsolete rules. The Pharisees obeyed the letter of the Law, but Jesus called them "Whitewashed Tombs".
Keeping the Law is inadequate. Lord Jesus said that we need to be more righteous than the Pharisees. So I receive the Lord Jesus as my righteousness. The law says, "Love your neighbour". Lord Jesus said, "Love your enemies. Love those who hate you."
"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19. What laws apply to dead people?
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.
"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3: 1-12
When you follow the law, you are not living by faith. That means that you are not pleasing God.
"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:23-25
The law does not save us and neither does it make us righteous. "Whoever keeps the whole law, but stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14
T
Thaddeus
Guest
To be precise, they obeyed the letter of what many describe as the legalistic law of rite, ritual and ceremony. They did not obey the letter of the moral law, far from it
T
Thaddeus
Guest
He has been told that so many times, but still continues to ask what John14:15 refers to